Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells
44 points by tnash 9 years ago | 19 comments- BuckRogers 9 years agoWhile this is interesting, it doesn't change my opinion that the future is electric, not hydrogen fuel cell. Not only for the way hydrogen is extracted but the complexity of the technology. These set of blogs[0] are by a non-expert, but explain well why it's actually more complex than the ICE and inferior to electric. Highly recommended reading for laymen like myself who want a view at the technology from a common sense standpoint.
My personal view outside of the needless complexity and lack of fueling stations, is that it's conveniently a way to ensure automakers keep us reliant on their expertise to repair and build these vehicles. Rather than the mechanical simplicity thus commodities that electrics are becoming.
As well, having China onboard with electrics ensures its future. It's mainly the Japanese and some US companies that want to push HFC. If electrics win out (and they more than likely will), everyone (including Apple) will be selling cars because it'll be mostly a software game.
I'm very much looking forward to the Tesla Model 3 reveal and putting down my preorder. Strangely enough it feels like this is going to be one of those breakthrough products for me. Alongside my Commodore did in 1986, 3dfx Voodoo card did in 1996, and the upcoming SteamVR (HTC Vive).
Great time to be alive.
[0]http://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/11470/why-fuel-cell-car...
- mikeash 9 years agoI agree that batteries look to be way superior, and I don't see any point in hydrogen. I especially don't understand why companies like Toyota are pushing it.
However, it's good to have alternatives. Maybe some big breakthrough will suddenly turn hydrogen into the better alternative. (This is not that breakthrough, to be sure.) So even if electric is better, I'm glad to see research like this.
I disagree that electric will mean cars are mostly a software game. Exterior look, interior accommodations, and driving dynamics still count for a lot.
- the8472 9 years agoFuel cells aren't just about cars.
- toomuchtodo 9 years agoWhat are they about then? Stationary applications? Which can be served with station battery packs charged with renewables?
- the8472 9 years agoBattery storage capacity is limited by the battery device itself and is subject to various kinds of decay over time.
Fuel cells on the other hand are the only high-tech component in the system while the hydrogen can be stored in bulk.
Certainly, hydrogen storage does have its own difficulties, but they don't require nanomaterials or precious metals to solve.
The only batteries that provide similar properties are redox flow batteries, which happen to be quite similar to fuel cells.
- the8472 9 years ago
- toomuchtodo 9 years ago
- mrfusion 9 years agoBut why can't fuel cells be used as simply another type of battery? Can you simply run them in reverse to generate h2? So you'd just give them a source of water and plug them into the wall? What am I missing?
- mikeash 9 years ago
- godzillabrennus 9 years agoHow is this not on the front page? If we have a low cost catalyst then Hydrogen Fuel cells become affordable and are well placed to disrupt how the world thinks about energy. This is an exciting time to be alive!
- jws 9 years agoEnergy breakthrough exhaustion. There are just too many breathless press releases and articles and they mostly drift away to join the aggregate body of scientific knowledge.
Way outside my field here, but this one doesn't address cost of production, only cost of components. Platinum is about $12/kW with current technology fuel cells. In a quick googling I found a 1kW fuel cell for $6000. It is safe to assume the platinum cost is fiddling about the edges. Combine with the hunch that creating large structures out of carbon nanotubes with nickel nanoparticles arranged in a certain way isn't going to be free, and my interest ebbs quickly.
The good news of this article is that if we do somehow end up in a future where fuel cells are widely used, we will need not be constrained by the world supply of platinum… but that isn't front page news.
- david-given 9 years agoI thought the problem with hydrogen as a fuel was storage --- liquification requires cryogenic temperatures and is very energy inefficient, compressed gases require heavy storage vessels and has terrible energy density, infusing it into the surface metals has poor energy density and is problematic for other reasons... actually turning it into energy is pretty well understood; it's getting it to where it's needed that's not.
Or has something changed since I last looked at this?
- barney54 9 years agoHow do hydrogen fuel cells disrupt the world? The fuel for today's fuel cells is natural gas. How would these be any different?
- toomuchtodo 9 years agoBecause some people believe fuel cells are better tech than batteries. It's not true of course, but that's where the belief comes from.
Batteries store energy. Fuel cells are solid state engines, not storage systems.
- toomuchtodo 9 years ago
- jws 9 years ago
- ChuckMcM 9 years agoI wonder if these new nanocatalysts are having an impact in organic chemistry in general. Anyone know?
- sandstrom 9 years agoThe biggest issue with fuel-cells is it will prolong the rein of hydrocarbon [natural gas], from which ~95% of hydrogen is extracted. Which everyone now knows is both dangerous and unsustainable.
- the8472 9 years agoThe same could be said about electric cars which are powered to a large degree by electricity from fossil fuels.
The key aspect is that electricity decouples production from consumption.
The same can be done for hydrogen, i.e. one group of people can work on optimizing the hydrogen-electricity conversion while another group of people focuses on optimizing the renewable-hydrogen conversion.
- toomuchtodo 9 years agoDisagree. There's no point in wasting time refining the process of burning natural gas into the process of cracking it into hydrogen, when you can simply cut out natural gas entirely and use solar, wind, hydro, and utility scale battery storage.
Fuel cells are a dead end, except possibly in space travel.
- the8472 9 years agoRe-read my comment, I did not mention optimizing the process of cracking natural gas.
- the8472 9 years ago
- toomuchtodo 9 years ago
- DrScump 9 years agoOnly if fueled by natural gas.
If we were creating an energy infrastructure from scratch today, nuclear plants could be used in off-peak periods to split hydrogen to fuel both fuel cells and peaker plants for peak daytime use.
- cellularmitosis 9 years agoThat isnt a reality which will actually play out. If your cheapest source of hydrogen comes from natural gas, you wouldn't be using a fuel cell to begin with, you'd just burn the natural gas directly.
- the8472 9 years ago