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Welcome Chris Lattner

879 points by nil_is_me 8 years ago | 275 comments

abalone 8 years ago
What's really interesting about this is not just that Lattner is brilliant and liked, but that is highlights just how critical software correctness and reliability is to autonomous vehicles. Naively one might have expected some machine learning expert to take over the reins at Tesla. But fast-moving Silicon Valley needs a fundamental shift in quality standards when it comes to safety-critical software, and if you look closely, Lattner has been leading this charge at the language and compiler level.
His work has been distinguished by the melding of language safety, reliability and clarity, that is, not merely having sophisticated constructs that help the guarantee correctness, but also making code simple, beautiful and easy to read. Ultimately writing safe code depends on the ability of the programmer to comprehend it, so creating a programming environment that's successful on all fronts is a foundational achievement.
A notable example: LLVM enabled ARC, a beautifully simple approach to memory management that removed much (not all) of the need for the developer to implement details in code, while providing high efficiency and, perhaps even more importantly, predictable performance (no garbage collection pauses). These are all essential for safety-critical realtime software.
- pjmlp 8 years ago
  > LLVM enabled ARC, a beautifully simple approach to memory management that removed much (not all) of the need for the developer to implement details in code, while providing high efficiency and, perhaps even more importantly, predictable performance (no garbage collection pauses). These are all essential for safety-critical realtime software.
  A GC algorithm known since the early days of Lisp GC research and used in languages like Mesa/Cedar in the late 70's.
  I can think of lots of other examples, like how VB, Delphi and C++ Builder interfaced with COM in the mid-90's.
  Yes, ARC PR made automatic memory management to those without background in compiler research more easy to accept, specially if they weren't aware of the stability issues that trying to implement a tracing GC in Objective-C semantics meant.
  However it goes without saying, that Lattner is really brilliant and his work on LLVM as a compiler building tool, as well as, clang in regards to improving the status quo of C static analysis tooling and compiler error messages, is really notable.
  In regards to ARC, maybe also in terms of PR, as now there is a whole generation of developers that thinks reference counting isn't garbage collection.
  - vintagedave 8 years ago
    > I can think of lots of other examples, like how VB, Delphi and C++ Builder interfaced with COM in the mid-90's.
    One curious thing is how similar Swift is to modern Pascal, ie Delphi. It has many other influences, and it is certainly not Pascal with another syntax, but reading the Apple guide when Swift was released gave frequent moments of deja-vu.
    On the subject of COM, yes. If you think COM means ATL you should try it in a language designed to work with interfaces and reference counting inbuilt - Delphi has COM interfaces as first-class language primitives, and a heap of classes and other code making COM quite straightforward. Much of this even spills into C++Builder, though since it's a different language it's not as clean as in Delphi. Still miles past ATL though.
    Re ARC: I think the thing that makes it appealing is it's conceptually simple, completely deterministic, and can be traced by reading code rather than understanding an environment's implementation. Delphi does ARC now too, and if you've ever wanted ARC in C++, C++Builder optionally supports it for some classes. ARC is not yet on Windows for either language, we're talking just iOS, Android and soon Linux here.
    (Disclosure: I recently started working at Embarcadero on C++Builder. This is a personal comment only. But liking the languages Embarcadero makes was one main reason I joined.)
  - abalone 8 years ago
    By PR you mean public relations? Note, I did not claim that Lattner invented the general idea. I'd suggest that dismissing the careful selection, refinement, integration and popularization of design elements as "PR" underestimates how great products are made. It's like saying Tesla's doing nothing new or the Macintosh was invented by Xerox.
- devsquid 8 years ago
  ARC is a whole debate, but the one thing it is not is simple and I would argue its more error prone than a traditional GC. I've used it for most of my career and I have seen what sloppy/unaware coding can do to it.
  Lattner is a well known expert on compilers. Having used Swift since its inception, I would call into question the reliability of the Swift LLVM compiler. In its current state (3.0.2) its absolutely terrible and does not back up the sentiment; "But fast-moving Silicon Valley needs a fundamental shift in quality standards when it comes to safety-critical software, and if you look closely, Lattner has been leading this charge at the language and compiler level".
  - abalone 8 years ago
    I'm not claiming Swift 3.0.2 is the most reliable language ever. All systems require time to mature and it is very young historically speaking. I am saying Lattner's design principles should realize better results for safety-critical software in the long run. Compiler bugs can be fixed; programmer error is tied to design. It might be Swift, it might be something more pared down, but he's a good guy to have in charge of an autonomous driving software platform.
    - devsquid 8 years ago
      Well I'm sure he's a very experienced manager for technical projects and also brings a large amount of experience with compilers to the table.
      His online presence always has that Apple Arrogance™ to it. Thats coming from someone who was born and raised an Apple fan.
  - webjprgm 8 years ago
    I'm not sure I would say Swift is the kind of robust that is needed for safety critical software, but it is a nice step forward for application code. It mostly forces you to deal with things safely while still allowing Objective-C dynamic behaviors when you need to get around the restrictions (often to interact with other Obj-C code).
    So, yes I can see why one would call Lattner at the forefront of making more reliable compilers and pushing shifts in quality standards in fast-moving Silicon Valley. It is an awesome achievement to create a new language that improves both readability and safety and even more awesome to get it mainstreamed so quickly.
    There are a few people who I would like to trade places with. Lattner is one of them, Musk is another. They both fulfill different parts of my long-held dreams. So I consider them to both be quite awesome. Its cool that they'll be working together too I guess.
    - devsquid 8 years ago
      Sure Lattner and Musk are interesting people, but I find the level of hero worship in the tech industry to be sickening.
      Having used compilers for a few new languages (Rust, Go, Dart, Kotlin, Swift). Swift is the only one I've had any issues with as well as Swift seems to be the only language to have adopted the "move fast and break things" philosophy of Silicon Valley. I dunno, I just don't see the argument.
  - hamstergene 8 years ago
    ARC is a tradeoff between manual and automatic memory management. Requring a little bit more care from programmer is intentional, not a disadvantage as you picture it, it is a price for not having, you know, GC. GC is less error prone not for free but at the price of eating CPU and memory, which in the world of mobile devices equal less battery life, so it is quite desirable for iPhones and MacBooks software not to have it.
    - pjmlp 8 years ago
      ARC is automatic memory management.
      "The Garbage Collection Handbook", chapter 5
      http://gchandbook.org/
  - solidsnack9000 8 years ago
    The right comparison for ARC is with manual memory management -- not GC.
    - adevine 8 years ago
      Depends on what your point is. Both ARC and GC are approaches to limit the complexity and difficulty of memory management. As such, I think it's very reasonable to compare them, because they're different approaches to the same underlying problem.
      FWIW, as someone who was a Java programmer for over a decade before learning Objective C right after ARC came on the scene, I greatly prefer ARC over garbage collection. I find the things you have to remember to think about with both ARC and GC (e.g. circular references and unintentionally strongly reachable references) to be about the same cognitive load, but the deterministic, predictable behavior of ARC means you won't have to try to debug random GC hangs that only happen in prod under heavy load and the subsequent fiddling with a million GC options to get performance to be acceptable.
    - brokencode 8 years ago
      Not really. They are both valid comparisons, since ARC is much easier to work with than manual management and can offer more predictable performance than GC. That said, it's also slower than manual management and can be trickier to work with than GC.
  - nicky0 8 years ago
    Just to point out that the Swift LLVM compiler is written in C++. So it being unreliable doesn't necessarily say much about the reliability or goals of Swift as a language.
    - steeve 8 years ago
      It looks like you haven't used C++ in a while.
      C++14 is a whole other world, and can be written with most (if not all) the safety guarantees you would expect from Swift or Rust.
      I had to use it for a project and was very surprised about this too...
  - 9935c101ab17a66 8 years ago
    Can you explain why you call into question the reliability of the Swift LLVM compiler?
    - nekitamo 8 years ago
      It would be apparent if you were a regular user of the compiler. Random crashes while compiling well-formed code and performance problems with larger files/projects are quite common.
      Still, I would say it's mostly usable now. It used to be a lot worse.
    - devsquid 8 years ago
      Do you use Swift at all?
      -edit- I meant it as a serious question. But the person who responded to me sums up the issues.
- freyir 8 years ago
  Swift, XCode, and Apple software in general don't scream reliability to me. No doubt Lattner is a smart guy, but I'd be more comfortable with a smart guy from NASA or somewhere similar with experience developing survival-critical software systems.
  - noobermin 8 years ago
    This is my feeling too. Yes, I'm a scientist, so I'm from that side of the pond, but does it make sense to hire a developer type for engineering where lives could be at stake?
    Not that dev'ing should rise to that level, but it isn't the typical level most developers work at. Also, if he is more of a "software correctness and reliability" guy as abalone says he is, then yes, that is the right direction.
  - shiny 8 years ago
    Pretty much none of Apple's current software is written in Swift though, from what I can tell.
    - dwaite 8 years ago
      Actually a fair bit is in Sierra. Apple decided apparently not to invest resources in targeting 32-bit platform support, so they have had to hold off shipping software relying on it until the platforms drop 32-bit support. Sierra did that last year, and I'd put $5 on iOS 11 doing that as well.
    - chris_7 8 years ago
      Including the Swift compiler itself - though at least that might prevent the segfaults.
    - devsquid 8 years ago
      If I remember right, its just the calculator app. Lol....
  - ryanmarsh 8 years ago
    NASA has a culture of safety and redundancy ad nauseam because people are indoctrinated into it, not because their hires have an innate proclivity for it.
    It is not fair to judge Lattner's ability or commitment to safety based upon Xcode and Swift. One of these predates him, the other is the result of his decisions (no doubt) but also countless decisions of others, including those above his pay grade at Apple.
    Xcode is basically the evolution of something designed for NEXT. Swift is a solution to various problems in application development. I'm not aware if he (et.al.) had real time processing or safety critical devices in mind with 3.0.2.
    - freyir 8 years ago
      > NASA has a culture of safety and redundancy ad nauseam because people are indoctrinated
      I'm not claiming Lattner is missing some innate ability -- it just appears they're putting someone in charge who has never been exposed to this mindset. Maybe they have a culture or other leaders already in place who can foster this within the team.
      > It is not fair to judge Lattner's ability or commitment to safety based upon Xcode and Swift.
      To be fair, we cannot judge Lattner's ability or commitment to safety at all, because he has no publicly-known experience with safety-critical systems.
      Perhaps he has relevant experience that's not public. And if it turns out he has no relevant experience, I'm not saying he can't learn. It's just strange for Tesla to put someone in charge who will be learning on the job.
    - pjmlp 8 years ago
      Probably not, but the WWDC session about real time audio used Swift on their presentation.
      http://devstreaming.apple.com/videos/wwdc/2016/507n0zrhzxdzm...
  - devsquid 8 years ago
    I know the first thing I thought about was does this mean Tesla's going to start writing its software in Swift. If so they are fucked :P. (BTW I write non-critical consumer software in Swift as my day job)
    - webjprgm 8 years ago
      Swift has its problems but keeps getting better. I only get to use it for my at-home projects, since at work the portion of the codebase that is for iOS is Objective-C with no plans to switch any time soon. Old Obj-C too, and started by people used to programming in VB on MS platforms. So count your blessings.
- tma-1 8 years ago
  Well considering that most of the autopilot software is driven by black box deep neural networks, I don't think hiring someone with a strong coding background is going to make that much of a difference when it comes to safety.
  - tawaycozstoned 8 years ago
    Sure it is. NNs can behave non-deterministic (i.e. they produce different output for same input because AFAIK some operations on GPUs are undeterministic) and it makes sense to invest into software systems that clearly take a closer look on software correctness.
    One idea to get correcter code is clean code layout (I heard good things about the LLVM code base), simple to read code and compilers that exploit theoretical knowledge we gained over years of compiler and type theory research. I think Chris Lattner has expertise in all of them (or at least knows about their importance, contributions and drawbacks), and if want to build a full-blown self-driving car it is important to have no indeterminism in your car, and advanced languages and compilers help to guarantee specific statements about your code.
    So it absolutely makes sense to invest in your compiler research team for safety, as our security, reliability and correctness expectations will rise (which is good) in particular for self-driving cars (they are not just DNNs).
    - tma-1 8 years ago
      It ultimately depends on how much of the car's action is driven by DNNs, a miss-classification in the CNN can easily lead to a car crashing on a highway and causing a pileup. DNNs are so complex, you can't really write unit tests like you typically do for deterministic code.
      That's why some of the big banks flat out refuse to implement any form of deep learning for risk analytics. They're much more reliant on simpler ML models like random forests and logistic regression that are easier to analyse and diagnose by model governance teams.
    - 8 years ago
  - simonh 8 years ago
    So would you say that the reliability and correctness of the non-NN part of the system, and the code that implements the NN itself, is not worth bothering with because the system includes a black box NN in it's design? What a bizarre conclusion to draw!
- davidgay 8 years ago
  I like LLVM. But in the world of programming languages/compilers, someone like Xavier Leroy (a real, proved correct C compiler) is much more a name that I would associate with a drive for "software correctness and reliability".
- PinguTS 8 years ago
  If you want to talk about safety and reliability in automotive, then we talk about Autosar[1].
  One of the concepts is to prevent the use of any dynamic behavior, which means you don't need any garbage collection at all. Because garbage collection is not predictable. It can be good and bad, but even a good one is not predictable.
  Embedded design and development is completely different to classical IT. For IT that sounds archaic. But it always proved right at the end.
  [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUTOSAR
  - Matthias247 8 years ago
    True, AUTOSAR is the current standard for embedded automotive systems. Regarding safety I heard different things about it, some parties would only use it for up to ASIL A, others to C, others also to D. My personal opinion is that AUTOSAR (and even it's basics like C as a programming language and the OSEK OS) are not the best solutions that we should come up with for all the safety critical tasks in the autonomous driving world. Someone like Lattner would clearly have the potential to improve the current state of the art there a lot - but it's uncertain if Tesla would share any advantages with the remaining industry.
    And regarding memory allocation in reliable automotive systems: Yes, the best practice would be not to allocate at all to get to some deterministic behavior. However I've seen lots of projects where "don't allocate" is implemented as "don't allocate with malloc", and you find dozens of custom memory allocators and pools throughout the code. Some of those designs are probably less reliable and safe than using a garbage collected language would be.
    - therockhead 8 years ago
      I often wonder would Erlang be a good language for embedded automotive systems. It's seems to have the right traits - no GC pauses, built for reliability etc.
- Cyph0n 8 years ago
  That's not very surprising honestly. ML/AI algorithms alone are useless if they are written incorrectly or are not executed properly by the underlying OS/firmware.
- thatfrenchguy 8 years ago
  "predictable performance (no garbage collection pauses)"
  No garbage collection means more fragmentation though which can be an issue at some point perf-wise, there's no free lunch.
- gigatexal 8 years ago
  software correctness eh?
  so build the autopilot and other systems in haskell?
naaaaak 8 years ago
Apple has a car project. Autopilot must be one of its core features. But Apple would not create a VP-level position for Autopilot or any one feature for any of their products (even if they it called something else for secrecy/generalization reasons).
This move increases his compensation and clout. Post-Tesla, he'll only have VP or founder titles elsewhere, never anything lower-level (unless he gets his old job back). The change must be welcoming, too.
That Apple could not retain him speaks volumes of the company they've become. They're a conglomerate at the intersection of tech and fashion. Groundbreaking engineering is not always given its proper due (or compensation) because there's only so many seats at the table. They've become rigidly corporate and not particularly inspiring.
Good luck to him, and good job taking a chance. Working for someone with a vision other than "thin" must be a welcoming change.
- will_pseudonym 8 years ago
  > Working for someone with a vision other than "thin" must be a welcoming change.
  This is so spot on. I would kill for a thicker phone with a less vibrant display that would last 2x as long on a single charge. They're pushing stuff that the consumer doesn't want (thinner/less battery volume, no headphone jack) in order to make money. It reminds me a lot of the TV industry pushing 3D TV's. I don't know a single person who has ever watched, let alone regularly, any 3D content on their 3D TV. It's a technology that few wanted but was pushed to drive sales.
  - jolux 8 years ago
    >They're pushing stuff that the consumer doesn't want (thinner/less battery volume, no headphone jack) in order to make money.
    But how do you know that people don't want this? All the people who told me they were switching to Android because of the headphone jack ended up with iPhone 7s anyways and love them. And now it seems that Samsung's next phone is going to ditch the jack too. Not to mention the numbers aren't really in favor of suggesting this change is hugely unpopular.
    - will_pseudonym 8 years ago
      Because the portable battery pack market size was estimated to be $15B in 2014[0], and is projected to grow to $17B by 2020[0]. That's saying nothing of the massive anecdotal evidence.
      [0] https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2016/04/04/825448/0/e...
- wallace_f 8 years ago
  >That Apple could not retain him speaks volumes of the company they've become.
  Sorry if this sounds naive (and it's not intended as veiled criticism), but could it not be the case just that he is more valuable to Tesla so they are able to justify offering him more compensation?
- laser 8 years ago
  I thought Apple's car project was dead? Now autopilot is the one feature they're building?
  http://www.motortrend.com/news/apple-car-dead-software-shift...
  - tajen 8 years ago
    Both are correct: Apple's car project is dead, Apple is on autopilot.
- geodel 8 years ago
  > That Apple could not retain him speaks volumes of the company
  Or it could be just that there 100s of engineers and tech leads working on Swift/Xcode/LLVM and giving enormous compensation to one because (s)he is famous engineer and wanted to leave does not really make sense. Unlike marketing or sales writing core software does not seem to be star driven, or at least I hope so.
- autoreleasepool 8 years ago
  > That Apple could not retain him speaks volumes of the company they've become. They're a conglomerate at the intersection of tech and fashion.
  Well said. Apple would have made the strides it did in its developer platform had it not been for Lattner. It does seem that the company has different priorities than it did when he was hired
mrkd 8 years ago
Elon Musk is the new Steve Jobs.
He is an inspirational leader and talented people want to work with him. It appears it will be harder and harder to attract and keep talent at Apple with out a leader like Steve Jobs.
- dmix 8 years ago
  It's also the stages of companies. Apple is in very much a "maintain the working business model" phase, especially with the current management. I'm not in a position to say they are wrong for doing so given they've continued to grow and now make as much money as ExxonMobil but with far better profit margins.
  While Tesla is still on the upward rocket phase while they are still figuring out their product/market. Much more exciting for the type of talent who are looking to make a big impact on the world.
  Steve Jobs brought that life back into Apple when he rejoined and maintained that environment through various product launches over many years.
  I'm not sure I'd want them to still pretend they are the same company or not, rather they should work on the talent they have. Just like how basketball teams rebuild after losing their star players, you rebuild around new talent instead of clinging on to past glory.
  - agumonkey 8 years ago
    Exactly, Apple is to microcomputing what Tesla is to green power and vehicles. We'll see in 10 years after Musk is fired from Tesla by John Sculley.
    - sah2ed 8 years ago
      > We'll see in 10 years after Musk is fired from Tesla by John Sculley.
      I know you are being facetious, but similar to Jobs, Musk got ousted as CEO from his first and second companies: Zip2 [1] and PayPal [2].
      [1] Vance, Ashley (2015). Elon Musk: Tesla, SpaceX, and the Quest for a Fantastic Future, p72.
      [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#X.com_and_PayPal
- xenadu02 8 years ago
  Perhaps you're reading too much into things?
  Chris Lattner has been at Apple for over 11 years. He shepherded LLVM, Clang, lldb, and Swift. All while climbing the ranks to Director. A huge number of engineers would simply be ready to think about and do something different after that much time.
  You might say that Elon answers "Why Tesla?" but in no way can you claim an answer to "Why leave Apple?".
  (I have no inside knowledge, I've just been in the industry long enough to have gone through this myself).
  - sulam 8 years ago
    Apple is famous for having some of the most tenured employees in the valley. 11 years is good, but not particularly long there. Google will be the next Apple in this regard, I predict.
  - CamperBob2 8 years ago
    ... in no way can you claim an answer to "Why leave Apple?".
    Seems obvious, doesn't it? Nothing interesting going on.
    Under Jobs, terms like "courage" and "innovation" used to mean something, like kicking sand in the face of the entire mobile phone industry and competing against their own bestselling product. Tim Cook's idea of "courage" involves selecting a headphone jack in a CAD tool and hitting the Delete key. And "innovation" means late nights at the office pushing the limits of dongle engineering.
    - webjprgm 8 years ago
      My guess is that Apple was a vehicle to further his compiler and programming language plans. Now that he has done that, it becomes more mundane maintenance and incremental changes. So it is time to move on to a new challenge.
    - rimantas 8 years ago
      Apple still has the best CPU on mobile. But that does not count for those who cannot see past a headphone jack.
    - 123jay7 8 years ago
      > kicking sand in the face of the entire mobile phone industryt
      You know, it takes years if not decades to invent a product like the iPhone. You can't just say "Oh, Apple used to make iPhones, what has Tim Cook invented?". Like, give it some time, man.
- bitwize 8 years ago
  I see Musk as more of a Bushnell/Woz hybrid. He knows his shit technically, which is why good people want to work with him. Jobs knew how to delegate knowing his technical shit to others though.
  - chc 8 years ago
    Steve Jobs' contributions came from from his leadership and marketing chops, but he also had pretty good technical knowledge for a CEO. I mean, he got his start designing circuit boards at Atari.
    - simonh 8 years ago
      Jobs was a true polymath. He knew enough about hardware design, software engineering, typography, music, pretty much any relevant subject that he could work well with experts in those fields and synthesise their efforts together into whole products.
    - jnbiche 8 years ago
      Well, he got his start passing of Woz's circuit board designs as his own at Atari. Even he conceded that.
      I do think his technical knowledge was probably higher than most give him credit for, however.
  - nikcub 8 years ago
    A lot of his best insights required technical knowledge - adopting Ethernet, SCSI, Mach kernels, BSD userland, object oriented programming, Postscript, TrueType fonts, WebObjects (and Java server, while ditching it on the client), html5 (over Flash)
    - flukus 8 years ago
      Were they his personally formed insights or did they come from talking to the right people?
  - yardie 8 years ago
    Jobs wrote the Atari game brick breaker. So like Gates, Zuckerberg, and Musk he does have a technical background.
    - yincrash 8 years ago
      Not really. He was contracted to do it, but subbed all the actual engineering work to Wozniak then essentially lied to Wozniak about how much that work was worth.[1]
      [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakout_(video_game)#History_...
    - valleyer 8 years ago
      As the story goes, Wozniak was actually the primary (or maybe even sole?) implementer on that project:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakout_(video_game)#History_...
    - tyingq 8 years ago
      Pretty sure Woz wrote Breakout, with er ... "assistance" from Jobs.
- Steko 8 years ago
  > He is an inspirational leader and talented people want to work with him.
  This is a convenient narrative when Tesla makes a high profile hire but they've also lost a lot of talented engineers and I don't remember the convention wisdom being that it was because of Elon's shortcomings.
  - yellowbeard 8 years ago
    Who left and why?
- mtgx 8 years ago
  This is why I think Apple missed its chance to buy Tesla and make Elon Musk its CEO at the same time.
  I can't even imagine what Musk would do with Apple's $200 billion in cash. I think he would've been much more daring with that money than even Steve Jobs would've been.
  But I think Apple missed its shot, and the merger of Tesla and Solar City probably sealed that for good. Now Musk is probably already seeing a 10-20x larger combined Tesla/Solar City company in his head, 10 years from now, and a potential merger with a bigger Space X as well.
  So from his point of view, it probably won't be worth it anymore for him. He would probably have to take over a declining iPhone market and deal with that at the same time as dealing with explosive growth at Tesla and an imminent launch of SpaceX' big rocket to Mars.
  On the other hand there would be hundreds of billions of dollars he could get access to, so I wouldn't say it's impossible to happen anymore either. However, at least to me, this would only be interesting from the "let's give Musk unlimited money and see what he can do wit it" point of view. Otherwise, I would rather see Tesla/SpaceX be on their own, than join an Apple/Tesla/SpaceX megacorp.
  - Inconel 8 years ago
    I'd be curious what that level of money would do to the culture at SpaceX. I work here as a tech and I get the impression from top to bottom that a big part of the overall culture centers around doing things as inexpensively as possible, largely out of necessity. People here genuinely get excited when we find ways to shave off even small amounts of waste.
    I'm not knowledgable enough about the psychological/sociological aspects of this but I wonder if it's possible to maintain that kind of culture when you have $200 billion sitting in the bank. It might lead to a kind of resource curse that some countries suffer from.
    I wonder if there have been studies done on this at the corporate level.
  - RivieraKid 8 years ago
    That's a really good point, what would Musk do with $200 billions.
    It's questionable if he would be the profit-maximizing CEO choice for Apple though.
    Perhaps he wouldn't even want the job (if we ignore the cash), because the smartphone and computer industry is maturing, i.e. tougher competition, decreasing rate of innovation, maintenance mode ahead.
- Waterluvian 8 years ago
  But unlike Steve Jobs, he's an engineer.
  My favourite bosses were engineers first.
- ksec 8 years ago
  Inspirational? People keep saying this but I cant see it. He has inspirational "ideas", but a person? At least not behind a screen and when he is doing demo.
  And for the iPhone Vs Electric Car comparison. Oh well may be i am old school, if BMW or other Car makers made a Electric Car ( assuming we have to choose a e-car ) i would choose them over Tesla any day. The interior quality of Tesla just dont compare well. The iPhone was truly a revolutionary product, in that many people tried smartphone before but they have ALL FAILED. This is speaking from someone who has used pretty much all smart phone prior to iPhone introduction.
  If anything i say the difference is Elon Musk lack of taste.
- pkaye 8 years ago
  How does Telsa compensation compare to Apple?
- celticninja 8 years ago
  I think Elon Musk is what Steve Jobs wanted to be. Steve Jobs thought he was changing the world with the iPhone, and while it was new it wasn't world changing. What Elon Musk does is world changing.
  - madeofpalk 8 years ago
    iPhone wasnt world changing? I mean sure, you could make the argument that if it wasnt Apple with the iPhone it would have been someone else, but it's undeniably daft to think that the iPhone didn't lead to a complete change in not only consumer electronics (mobile phones), but also so many services around it.
    It's well documented that Android was going to be Blackberry-ish, then they pivoted to be iPhone-ish after the original iPhone announcement. Think the App Store and things like Uber, which exist primarily as mobile apps.
    - xenadu02 8 years ago
      The iPhone broke the carrier's backs. Before the iPhone the carrier was the customer, not you. They dictated features. They had final approval over the awful Java applets on phones. They also set the app prices and took a huge cut.
      Very rarely is a new technology useful in abstract; the inventor of the steering wheel made a contribution but without the rest of the car it is meaningless.
      Touch screens existed, sure. There were one or two largish screen phones, sure. Smartphones existed (all using keyboards and styluses). OS X and Safari existed. But no one had put it all together into a single device, nor had anyone created a sensible UI design language to take advantage of things like multitouch.
      You're basically saying Dropbox is garbage because rsync/SMB/NFS/FTP existed. Or Uber/Lyft are garbage because Taxis existed. Yes there are some superficial similarities but it turns out the details make a massive world of difference and it is intellectually dishonest to be so dismissive.
    - celticninja 8 years ago
      The app economy was the revolution.
    - skeletonjelly 8 years ago
      Interested to see your sources on this. I was under the impression Android started first but Apple beat them to the announcement
  - AsyncAwait 8 years ago
    Probably not a popular opinion, but I think Musk is overrated. The guy has a huge ego, just like Jobs had, and while he's putting it into a nice package, he's not the guy to come up with anything; electric cars, spacecraft etc.
    Yes, he might change the world if/once he gets to Mars, but most of his stuff is a marketing tech demo.
    Bell Labs changed the world. Tesla did not.
    - stupidcar 8 years ago
      Have you read Vance's biography of Musk? He's definitely a flawed individual in many ways, but I don't think he's fundamentally an egotist. Certainly not to the sociopathic degree many business leaders are.
      And I think your categorisation of his work as a tech demo is unfair, and uninformed. SpaceX have built rockets that are delivering satellites into orbit and supplies to the international space station, and have achieved reusability. They have played a significant part in building a private sector space industry. These are not tech demos, they are real things. Can you boast any such achievement in your own life?
      Likewise, Tesla have built and sold electric cars that people want. They've created a global re-charging network to supply them. And they've been the first company to deploy significant automation into the automobile market on a large scale. These are not tech demos, any more than the gigafactory rising out o the Nevada desert is.
    - Inconel 8 years ago
      >but most of his stuff is a marketing tech demo.
      Disclaimer: I work at SpaceX, albeit as a technician so I'm very far down the corporate ladder, but I feel that may be unduly harsh.
      There can certainly be legitimate criticisms around Musk personally, and SpaceX/Tesla in regards to whether they are overhyped relative to competitors or whether they will succeed on delivering what they promise. With that being said, when a company delivers 70k+ cars in a year, even if this is just a tiny percentage of the overall new car market, or a company puts satellites into orbit, I think we've moved beyond "marketing tech demo" status.
    - RivieraKid 8 years ago
      Of course he doesn't come up personally with, say, rocket engine innovations. But what he does is orders of magnitude more valuable - motivating people, making good high-level decisions (because he's smart and knowledgable in multiple areas such as engineering, design, marketing), getting the right people work for him and being very hard-working.
      Being a good CEO is just way more valuable than being a good individual contributor, because it multiplies the output and growth of the whole company.
      And ego doesn't really matter that much in the big picture.
    - agumonkey 8 years ago
      His "story" seemed to hint at a more engineering capable than Jobs. Jobs could do a bit of hacking it seems. Musk could do a bit of physics which is a tad harder IMO.
    - Obi_Juan_Kenobi 8 years ago
      > Probably not a popular opinion
      I don't know about that; the circlejerk against Musk has always been pretty strong. Not as strong as the one for him, but strong nonetheless.
      FWIW, the 'change the world' metric is dumb; he's played a major role in his companies' success, and they are quite notable companies. Not much more to say about it than that.
  - chx 8 years ago
    If you think the iPhone didn't change the world, you need to take a second look.
  - alwillis 8 years ago
    Jobs is complicated because he had technical knowledge and design taste.
    Most engineers wouldn't have thought about having proportionally spaced fonts back in the 80's when personal computers only had 80 x 24 fixed withd character green phosphor displays.
    When Jobs dropped out of regular college and dropped back in to take the classes he was truly interested in, he took calligraphy; years later that lead to the Mac being for first personal computer (the LISA had it too, but that was the $10,000 predecessor to the Mac) to have proportionally spaced, bitmap display.
    That's not something Woz (or someone like him) would have prioritized for a brand new computing platform.
  - alwillis 8 years ago
    Jobs also has over 300 patents to his name. His name is first for example on the multitouch patent, since he created many of the gestures and ui/ux concepts we use everyday: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/5328...
  - tma-1 8 years ago
    He hasn't changed much yet.
  - alwillis 8 years ago
    Jobs also has over 300 patents to his name. His name is first for example on the multitouch patent, since he created many of the gestures and ui/ux concepts we use everyday: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/5328...
- jksmith 8 years ago
  Funny you mention that. Apple will crash if they don't get a serious personality cult back in there. Even that probably won't save them. Plus Musk is not the same brilliant, simple communicator that Jobs was.
  - alwillis 8 years ago
    Apple has done more than okay since Tim Cook took over as CEO: https://qz.com/765360/the-first-five-years-of-tim-cooks-reig...
    - abraae 8 years ago
      So did Microsoft when Ballmer took over from Gates. Until suddenly they didn't any more.
      https://steveblank.com/2016/10/24/why-tim-cook-is-steve-ball...
      > If you think the job of a CEO is to increase sales, then Ballmer did a spectacular job. He tripled Microsoft’s sales to $78 billion and profits more than doubled from $9 billion to $22 billion. The launch of the Xbox and Kinect, and the acquisitions of Skype and Yammer happened on his shift. If the Microsoft board was managing for quarter to quarter or even year to year revenue growth, Ballmer was as good as it gets as a CEO. But if the purpose of the company is long-term survival, then one could make a much better argument that he was a failure as a CEO as he optimized short-term gains by squandering long-term opportunities.
  - afterdad 8 years ago
    Why is it funny that he mentions that?
    - tawaycozstoned 8 years ago
      Second that. I get the different opinions, but why is it funny (the downvoting implies that it was funny).
      I can for 100% assure that I only nitpick because I want to understand the logical reasoning for down-voting and are scared that I am too high to understand the meaning of the phrase "It's funny you mention that". I am not a native speaker, but I know all the words, heard it in English and there exists a translation into my language and the interpretation is the same for both, so long story short ... why is it funny?
    - jksmith 8 years ago
      Funny that I've been thinking about the same issues going on with AAPL right now. That was all.
  - alwillis 8 years ago
    Apple has done more than okay since Tim Cook took over as CEO: https://qz.com/765360/the-first-five-years-of-tim-cooks-reig...
  - alwillis 8 years ago
    Apple has done more than okay since Tim Cook took over as CEO: https://qz.com/765360/the-first-five-years-of-tim-cooks-reig...
carlosdp 8 years ago
Wow, that was unexpected. Great hire by Tesla. Interesting move from compiler development to driving AI, though I guess for the VP position, his experience in managing those teams is much more important.
- chimeracoder 8 years ago
  > Wow, that was unexpected. Great poach by Tesla.
  Tangential, but I really hate the term "poach" when referring to recruiting employees.
  We shouldn't think of hiring people as "poaching", because employees are not property. You can't "poach" an employee because there's no ownership, and employees should be free to make their own decisions regarding their employment opportunities.
  - Angostura 8 years ago
    I hope you similarly dislike the term 'head-hunt' on the grounds that no-one's head is severed. 'Poach' is a useful metaphor that suggests that one company actively tried to lure an employee from another. It is a metaphor, it doesn't imply that the employee is a chattel. I think one can get a bit too precious about these things.
    - aschampion 8 years ago
      Language shapes perception shapes language, so it's absolutely worthwhile to be vigilant and critical about the idioms we endorse by adopting, especially for engineered phrases (e.g., "right to work").
    - chc 8 years ago
      "Poaching" doesn't refer to targeted hunting, though; it refers to hunting where one has no right to hunt. Of course, if this were just the etymology and nobody used it that way in the context of hiring, that wouldn't matter — but people do sometimes use it derogatorily, to suggest that one company has wronged the other. So I can see why somebody might prefer a less proprietary word.
    - furyofantares 8 years ago
      When large powerful companies conspire to keep wages down by illegally entering "anti-poaching" agreements to prevent employees from having freedom to make career choices because it would also give them leverage to capture a larger percentage of the value they provide, I think it then becomes warranted to question terminology that makes this sound acceptable.
    - caf 8 years ago
      It is a metaphor, but it does imply that the employee is a chattel - perhaps tongue-in-cheek, but nonetheless.
      It's always worth thinking about the language we use to describe things, because that language does have an effect on our modes of thought.
    - abiox 8 years ago
      > I hope you similarly dislike the term 'head-hunt' on the grounds that no-one's head is severed.
      this comparison really seems to miss the mark.
    - eugeniub 8 years ago
      Yeah, they both sound kind of annoying.
  - forgotpwtomain 8 years ago
    I'm not sure why OP was down-voted, you may disagree but his post was credible and merits a response.
    - gkya 8 years ago
      I downvoted most of the subthread as it was completely off-topic. I didn't come here to read this garbage.
  - carlosdp 8 years ago
    Yea, I mean that's a good point, it is kinda a weird term. I don't mind changing it I guess.
  - draw_down 8 years ago
    I agree, it's a distasteful term. People choose jobs according to what's best for them and "poaching" implies the employer's interests should matter more than that.
    - randomdata 8 years ago
      Looking at the definition of poach, as it relates to this context, the subtext seems to be of the case where an employee leaves without warning or discussion of why they no longer want to remain at their place of employment. Like you cannot save an elephant after it has been poached, but maybe you could have if you know that there was a problem. The poach is the realization that you didn't see it coming.
      Of course, the employee is free to just up and walk away at any time, but if you feel it is courtesy to discuss the relationship before parting, and it wasn't discussed, then poach does not seem completely inappropriate.
      Having said that, in this case, we don't know many details about the parting. He and Apple may have had a good discussion about the future and came to a realization that the relationship wasn't going to work anymore, for whatever reason, and parted amicably.
      From another perspective, perhaps we should not even think of employer/employee agreements to be relationships in this day in age?
    - ianai 8 years ago
      i.e. it's an business management term.
  - samirillian 8 years ago
    as Freud said, sometimes a poach is just a poach
  - 8 years ago
  - Vampires123432 8 years ago
    what a whiny, irrelevant comment
    - draw_down 8 years ago
      No.
  - elastic_church 8 years ago
    Pedantic, triggered by semantics, username checks out.
    Well to play the game, your definition and distinction about property isn't the definition of poaching that the slang was based on. Its more about the one where they steal game (the employees') from another's domain. So the company's are the property and the employees are in the bay area wilderness in and around those companies.
    A wild VP appeared! Tesla used money, its super effective!
n00b101 8 years ago
Chris Lattner : Tesla :: Bjarne Stroustrup : Morgan Stanley [1]
[1] http://www.morganstanley.com/profiles/bjarne-stroustrup-mana...
- ajeet_dhaliwal 8 years ago
  I'm surprised Stroustrup is working at Morgan Stanley.
  - pjmlp 8 years ago
    Finance is one area where C++ still rules as full stack language.
    In the typical enterprise, whose domain isn't selling software products, C++ tends to be mostly used as infrastructure language for .NET/Java/JS native libraries or interacting with their runtime APIs.
    - ajeet_dhaliwal 8 years ago
      I work in the games industry and C++ is used for almost all system code (not tools) but this still feels like Shigeru Miyamoto taking a gig at a toy shop or Spielberg working at Universal Studios amusement park.
  - 8 years ago
- xigency 8 years ago
  You know, Google seems to attract a lot influential technologists that don't necessarily have a role in their organization. I guess it makes sense that other companies do this as well.
gtrubetskoy 8 years ago
There's got to be more to this story. You don't spend years developing a language (Swift) as culmination of previous work (LLVM) and then abandon it for a job in a relatively new and different discipline. It doesn't make much sense to me.
- n00b101 8 years ago
  My guess is that the Tesla Autopilot Software team is working on language/compiler abstractions to reduce their dependency on semiconductor hardware manufacturers, particularly NVIDIA [1]. NVIDIA hardware has been Tesla cars for many years, and they have a dominating position in both embedded and data center hardware for self-driving AI, and they are not afraid to partner with Tesla's competitors [2]. This whole ecosystem is based on CUDA toolchain, which is built atop LLVM [3]. And Chris Lattner is the original developer of LLVM.
  [1] https://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla-and-nvidia.html [2] https://www.nvidia.com/object/audi-and-nvidia.html [3] http://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/nvvm-ir-spec/#axzz4VMqXIKfo
  - peller 8 years ago
    Considering the recent hire of Tesla's new Vice President of Autopilot Hardware Engineering team was Jim Keller[0], the lead architect for AMD's K8 (Athlon 64) and a very influential force behind both Apple's A* chips and AMD's Zen (Ryzen), I think you're right that they're looking to rely less on NVIDIA.
    My guess would be that Tesla's ambitions are set on controlling the whole stack. Something along the lines of a custom software toolchain for tailor-built silicon.
    [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer)
  - localhost 8 years ago
    Or perhaps they want to go down the road of FPGA / ASIC. There is some LLVM based FPGA tooling around today [1], but perhaps they want to uplevel the core programming language to a new programming language? Chris has done this already from Obj-C to Swift.
    [1] http://llvm.org/devmtg/2014-10/Slides/Baker-CustomHardwareSt...
- Benjamin_Dobell 8 years ago
  I think you'll find that it's extremely unusual for modern software developers to remain at the one company doing the one job for a long time.
  Given it's largely a field for intellectuals, sticking at the one thing for a long time can become repetitive and boring; losing the challenge and the appeal.
- adamnemecek 8 years ago
  He has a track record of being able to scale engineering organizations in open source and corporate environments.
  - jonstewart 8 years ago
    Exactly. If you can lead and develop a complex, technically challenging open source project that competes head-to-head with, say, one of the top 10 most venerated open source projects, achieve parity with it (some would say surpass it), without too much drama, _at Apple_, then, well, it's probably less about the raw technical talents and more about technical taste, managerial talent, and character.
- kenferry 8 years ago
  Mm, I disagree. It's amazing and admirable how hard Chris has pushed on LLVM and such, but if he sees an opportunity to do something he thinks is really important, why wouldn't he take it?
- lawnchair_larry 8 years ago
  There is, it's called seven figures worth of reasons.
  - zump 8 years ago
    I wonder what his salary is.
    - lawnchair_larry 8 years ago
      Salary will be modest, but the bulk of his comp will be stock and bonuses for sure.
- teacup50 8 years ago
  It's not a positive indicator of the health of Apple's engineering and business/engineering management that they couldn't keep someone in an extremely key technology position.
  I'm reminded of their loss of both Avie Tevanian and Bertrand Serlet.
freshyill 8 years ago
Well, mystery solved.
Now, the new mystery: What does this mean for Apple's car project?
Yes, I realize he probably didn't have much (or anything) to do with it (whatever it really even is). There are going to be some batshit crazy theories though, and I can't wait to see how this affects Apple's stock price.
- carlosdp 8 years ago
  Could be that rumors are true and they stopped the car project. Could also be that Apple's extreme compartmentalization came into play and Chris wasn't privy to that team and therefore couldn't really express interest in it. Could also be that they already have a full staff and didn't really have a spot for him or feel he was a good fit.
  I don't think we can derive much about their project from this hire tbh.
- iansowinski 8 years ago
  From Chris website: "My overall objective is to improve large software systems through the development of novel techniques as well as the application of known engineering principles. Of particular interest to me are programming languages, compilers, debuggers, operating systems, graphics, and other system software."
  So his new work will have a lot to do with his inters ;)
  - coldtea 8 years ago
    Doesn't sound like it.
    All of those ("programming languages, compilers, debuggers, operating systems, graphics, and other system software") imply interest in tools for software development, where here they'd mostly be developing software (self driving engines etc), period.
    - freyir 8 years ago
      Tesla likely has specialized software demands, and could benefit from specialized tools. In this sense, Lattner's interests coincide with Tesla's.
- bredren 8 years ago
  Car is clearly a bet-the-company level product for Apple. Tesla looking more and more like a bet-the-company acquisition.
  - kornish 8 years ago
    How is Apple Car clearly a bet-the-company level product for Apple? It could just be Apple's normal secrecy, but as far as I know that project isn't generally well-known enough to be mentioned in the same pantheon as Google or Tesla.
  - mtgx 8 years ago
    Spending $10 billion on the car project would not be "betting the company" level of investment for Apple. That's "let's acquire a Motorola" level of investment.
    Plus, I think the latest rumors say Apple has given up on making a car anyway, and it's working on a Waymo competitor of sorts.
  - vehementi 8 years ago
    How many billions does it cost to experiment with Car? How many billions does apple have sitting in cash?
- revelation 8 years ago
  Why discuss the imaginary car project that has stealth launched, stealth stopped, stealth started and who can even keep track instead of the company delivering cars now?
  This has gotten so much coverage on the back of ... nothing really.
- devy 8 years ago
  > Well, mystery solved.
  That was a short mystery! :)
  - freshyill 8 years ago
    The best kind!
jaegerpicker 8 years ago
So I kinda what to be Chris Lattner when I grow up. :) LLVM, Swift, and Autopiloting cars is a hell of a run.
salimmadjd 8 years ago
I've met Chris and he is one of the nicest and humblest guy you can imagine. I'm not betting on him lasting in Tesla for more than 12 months. I think there will be a cultural conflict.
- Etzos 8 years ago
  Could you explain why you think there will be a cultural conflict? Do Tesla engineers typically act in ways counter to being nice and humble?
  - _1 8 years ago
    It's more like the person above than the people below.
    - pseudometa 8 years ago
      Chris did work under the leadership of Steve Jobs for 5 years.
    - RivieraKid 8 years ago
      Those two personality types can work fine actually, I think. Two egoistic-ish people working together is much more likely to be problematic.
- bangonkeyboard 8 years ago
  Was there a cultural conflict for the myriad other ex-Apple employees at Tesla?
  - coldtea 8 years ago
    Where they "one of the nicest and humblest guys you [could] imagine"?
    Because that was also part of the parents framing for the conflict.
eddanger 8 years ago
This is very exciting for the future of Autopilot. I thought it was amazing already. I can't wait to see what they have in store.
sudeepj 8 years ago
Being a Rust-lang fan, I would have loved to see him join the rust-lang group (which I am not a part of). I thought there might be a chance of this after I saw the post of him leaving Apple.
dbg31415 8 years ago
Top two stories right now are about people leaving Apple... I don't think that bodes well for Apple.
zubairq 8 years ago
I always liked that Chris Lattner pubicly acknowledged Light Table as the inspiration for SWIFT Playgrounds: http://www.nondot.org/sabre/ Now, of course their new project is Eve
alpb 8 years ago
Obviously, also related from the home page right now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13366542
breatheoften 8 years ago
(wish) Maybe he's being hired to make enhancements to swift/llvm for numerically intensive computation? It would be awesome to see a pure-swift version of something like tensor-flow and all the compiler machinery to make it fast!
shmerl 8 years ago
What languages are used by Tesla for developing autopilot software?
ChuckMcM 8 years ago
Way to go Chris! It has to be pretty awesome when the CEO tweets and blogs that you're joining the team. No pressure!
reacharavindh 8 years ago
Interesting twist : Apple buys Tesla and elevates Elon to the missing role of Steve Jobs. Wouldn't it be nice...
gmosx 8 years ago
It's quite interesting that there is no public comment from any other member of the Swift Core Team.
twsted 8 years ago
Yesterday reading "Update on the Swift Project Lead" I was going to comment "He will go to Tesla".
Pure lucky, but my reasoning was that it is difficult for a compiler (etc) engineer like him to find a better job than the one he was doing at Apple: developers' tools, compiler infrastructure, a new programming language, Coding playground and so on.
72deluxe 8 years ago
Argh who's in charge of Xcode and Swift at Apple now????
zanko 8 years ago
Recording the conversation and filmed
gigatexal 8 years ago
Wow! My faith in autopilot just increased.
withparadox2 8 years ago
I doubt that this is a right decision.
- tgtweak 8 years ago
  Care to elaborate?
Scuds 8 years ago
Congrats from us CS @ UIUC peeps!
8 years ago
NKosmatos 8 years ago
Another example of why Apple is going downhill... Macbook with less ports, copy&paste iPhone with no originality, imac/macpro with old CPUs :-(
- shadowfacts 8 years ago
  Lattner had nothing to do with any of the things you listed.
  - jlarocco 8 years ago
    The reading comprehension on HN is pretty bad lately. OP didn't say Lattner had anything to do with those examples.
    The point is that Apple's been dropping the ball a lot lately. Lattner leaving is either another example of that (why didn't they make him a better offer to keep him?) or a consequence of it (what smart person wants to work for a company that's constantly screwing up?).
    - coldtea 8 years ago
      >The point is that Apple's been dropping the ball a lot lately.
      They might, but the examples for that are bad themselves:
      >Macbook with less ports
      Which has always been something Apple pushed for. Dropping deprecated ports early (to complains) and adopting new ones. Few doubt USB-C is the future, even if they complain about the dongles.
      >copy&paste iPhone with no originality
      The iPhone, like the iPod before it, had always had incremental updates. What originality exactly should it had at it's 10th year? Magic pixie dust spray? Can you point to some competitor doing anything original?
      Besides, while everyone is always about how "Apple is all about style and no substance", nobody pays attentions to the large internal changes inside the iPhone year over year, with new processors, boards, camera setups and other internals designed by Apple. Processors, than, in all tests, leave the competitive top-end Android phones behind in single/multi core performance.
      >imac/macpro with old CPUs :-(
      Intel announced Kaby Lake CPUs suitable for the iMac just last week (Jan 03).
      Mac Pro, yes, but it's probably a duying niche product.
igorigor 8 years ago
LLVM + GPU
akellermann 8 years ago
Ohhh drama
camus2 8 years ago
That was quick! Congrats.
mozumder 8 years ago
Did not see that coming...
yborg 8 years ago
Maybe Tesla is the Apple Graveyard now.
http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/08/elon-musk-if-you-dont-make...
kelvin0 8 years ago
Yeah, I would work for Tesla in a heartbeat (or SpaceX, or Solar City or any of the Mega Factories). Well it's back to Access programming for me ... :(
tbrock 8 years ago
Good for him.
This is awful though. People can't really think spending time on autopilot for rich people sports cars is more important than the LLVM compiler infrastructure.
Give me a break!
Even if tesla invents cool new batteries and changes the way we think about power all of that stuff still has to run on software, that the compiler infrastructure depends on...
- grzm 8 years ago
  Developing a system that can handle a complex, variable, real-world environment like driving surely has applications in other domains. LLVM and Swift are great contributions, and make development easier. That said, I don't see them changing software development as significantly as the possibilities opened up by systems like Tesla's autopilot.
DoodleBuggy 8 years ago
I guess CarPlay or "Project Titan" just wasn't as interesting?
megablast 8 years ago
I hate it when big companies buy other, smaller entities, and hope they don't interfere and change them too much.
But seriously, exciting news for Tesla.
- mikeash 8 years ago
  This is just a normal hire, no different than thousands of others that happen every day aside from being a fairly high position in the company and being someone well known in the tech community.
- carlosdp 8 years ago
  What? What small entity are you referring to?
  - eliben 8 years ago
    Some apple vendor, probably
  - up_so_floating 8 years ago
    Chris Lattner, personally
- drdrey 8 years ago
  are you a bot?