Ask HN: Is working for FAANG as big of a deal in Europe as it is in the US??

32 points by st1x7 4 years ago | 39 comments
How different is it to work for a big tech company in Europe compared to the US? Are FAANG jobs really that different compared to the rest of opportunities people have in Europe (in the same way that they are in the US)?
  • tester756 4 years ago
    As a Polish guy, as I see it:

    Majority of people just think of FAAMG as "giant companies", so working for them is always very good, but it's not the same level as e.g reddit's cs careers question where people seem to be insanely desperated to get there

    I'm currently studying (and working full time), so I'm close with opinions of peole that are in 20-25 years old range that are relatively new to the industry (0-3 years of exp) and people very rarely talk about FAAMG or any serious attempts to get to them

    When it comes to online communities, then there are people who work in US or in FAAMG-ish companies and there's way more (relatively to _normal_ programmers/computer people) talk about it, but there's also a lot of people who prefer e.g Zurich, London and similar cool places.

    So, overall I don't think that it is BIG deal, it is for sure significant topic that's happening from time to time because BIG tech companies are associated with doing cool stuff instead of CRUD Apps, so people can peak there, but nothing crazy.

    I'm personally interested because I'm bored with CRUDs and I'd want to try to compete (or just test myself) against good people during recruitment :)

    • BazookaMusic 4 years ago
      Working at a FAANG in northern Europe. I'm originally from Greece and can say that they're a very nice opportunity because they usually offer nice relocation packages and are looking for International candidates.

      Also depending on the product, it is possible to move to US positions if you'd like, so there's that.

      One of the best pros of working in a FAANG in Europe though is that for some countries, the companies inherit the culture. In my case, the country has an excellent work life balance culture. This has caused quite a few employees who moved to a US based product and then returned here, escaping the much worse working conditions in comparison. The only takeaway is that the compensation is much lower than the US, but this is largely due to the extremely higher taxes.

      • m1 4 years ago
        Just my opinion from the circles I hang around in, in terms of tech sector - not particularly a huge deal to work for a FAANG company, it’s mostly just like working for any another company.
        • jakub_g 4 years ago
          I don't work at FAANG but from knowing the EU market from friends and public data on Twitter, salaries in (non-FAANG) US companies like Uber, Yelp, Datadog are mostly not achievable in other companies for individual contributors, due to stock grants and general huge pile of VC cash the US companies have.
          • jakub_g 4 years ago
            My answer above is not very complete so I'll add what some siblings wrote:

            IMO people are not that desperate to work at FAANG in EU as in US (from what you can feel reading HN, blogs etc. "FAANG or die", "leetcode for life").

            Reasons are: 1) FAANG have limited presence in EU. Often you'd have to move countries or at least cities. In many smaller cities you can also make good money in IT with lower cost of living outside of FAANG; 2) they pay better, but nowhere near the US market craze; you can get,say, 20k better but not 200k better; 3) FAANG in EU tend to hire rather senior engineers; 4) there's this feeling that it's hard to get there and you get whiteboarded with irrelevant process, so many people don't even bother trying; 5) many people are perhaps not very up to date with US companies' salaries possibilities (open salary sharing in EU is not very common, and glassdoor often has few / outdated data points; outsiders don't know about Blind, levels.fyi etc).

            Having said that I'm in my 30s so I don't know what current students think.

            • detaro 4 years ago
              Re 3), at least in my circles (finished uni past few years) plenty folks got junior positions at Google, Amazon, and MS (a good chunk through internships, but not only)
          • gurkanoluc 4 years ago
            I worked for companies at various sizes FAANG and non-FAANG in London and I would say what FAANG pays is much better than what most of the startups or other companies such as banks pay.

            Base salaries are usually similar but RSU and other benefits make the real difference. For example, most of the tech companies in London don't even provide health insurance, since they rely on NHS.

            Startups try to use options to convince people but what you're given mostly wouldn't make you a millionaire in the event of exit or IPO.

            I guess the other group of companies who could match what FAANG offers as a whole package would be hedge funds. I would say it's harder to enter them tho, since they still can throw your CV to the bin just because you don't have a degree from oxbridge.

            • alexgmcm 4 years ago
              Maybe it's a cultural thing - but as a British person I'd be fine with the NHS.

              I'd be happy if they stopped the salaries being like 2-3x smaller than the USA though - I get it, the CoL is lower, but it's not that much lower.

              • gurkanoluc 4 years ago
                I agree with CoL being not much different and companies just using that as a reason are misleading. It’s quite unfortunate that, if you’re a SR SWE in a normal company max you can make is 100k and that would translate into ~5500 net. If you have 2 kids and wanna rent big enough house near an outstanding school in zone 2, ok crime rate, with council tax and bills it’s quite possible to spend at 3500 of that just for housing. Not leaving much money for non-essential fun things.

                Another reason for crazy salaries in the valley is limited talent pool, which might change soon with companies moving to remote or at least being remote friendly. It’s quite hard to get someone into the US with H1B. As far as I know even Facebook and Google stopped sponsoring.

              • talmr 4 years ago
                I’m an American so I always thought it’s cool you have NHS because we have to either pay for our own health insurance or we get it from our employer. What do you mean by health insurance there - are those additional offerings that NHS doesn’t provide?
                • mattmanser 4 years ago
                  Yeah, usually allows you to jump the queue for ops and to get a private room. Access specialists you may not have got referred to by NHS. See [1] for full list.

                  For example a friend of mine had a gallbladder removed on private last month but would have had to wait till middle of next year in NHS.

                  Not usually that bad, but covid means a lot of NHS hospitals are having to push back non-essential surgery.

                  [1] https://uk.virginmoney.com/virgin/living/article/is-private-...

                  • talmr 4 years ago
                    Thanks for the reply, appreciate the insight.
              • Barrin92 4 years ago
                It's mostly like working for any other large European business in my experience. Lots of the FAANG status in the US seems to come from the high wage premiums and the isolated SV culture which doesn't really exist in Europe where FAANG is just located where everyone else is.
                • jwalton 4 years ago
                  I’m in Canada. I get paid quite well in my non-FAANG role, I have way more vacation than I’d get at any company that size. I’d probably make a little more at a FAANG role but the salaries here are not the insane salaries they are in the US, and I prefer the vacation. Also at any large company up here I’d have to give ownership of any code I write in my spare time to my employer, and at small companies it’s easier to negotiate that kind of thing and get opportunities to work on open source. Possibly if I was in Vancouver I’d make a lot more working for a FAANG company, but my cost of living would be insane, and they basically try to get you to move to the US. I have some friends at some of those companies, and they’ve tried to poach me, and I’ve consistently turned them down.
                  • bor100003 4 years ago
                    On every technical talk, there's at least one presenter bragging about previous experience at FAANG. No exceptions, always 1 slide.
                    • jtsiskin 4 years ago
                      I don’t think it’s bragging; I think it’s to establish credibility (“ethos”)
                      • mkr-hn 4 years ago
                        The line between establishing credibility and bragging is easy to cross even for someone who's trying not to cross it.
                        • eivarv 4 years ago
                          The problem is that it doesn't really prove anything other than that the person managed to get hired by FAANG.
                          • bor100003 4 years ago
                            It's something that must be said, even if they did only a summer internship.
                        • alexfromapex 4 years ago
                          From the U.S. perspective is it really still prestigious to work for them? I think these companies have been causing lots of ethical issues and having negative impacts on society lately all in the name of profit.
                          • xkeysc0re 4 years ago
                            Prestige has been replaced by money, I think. It used to be Google could pay a little below top tier since they had such a sterling reputation and interesting work to be done. Now they pay outrageous sums to secure their position and optimize ads
                            • ActorNightly 4 years ago
                              > I think these companies have been causing lots of ethical issues

                              Pro tip: you can safely assume that any of the stuff you read online in terms of ethics in those companies exists solely for people to feel "woke" and for you to click on, and is highly biased. Do not take what you read online as the common viewpoint about those companies.

                              Companies like Amazon, Facebook and Google has had way more positive impact on society that surpasses any negative things that they have done. The negative things should be ignored, but require proper contextualization and accuracy to really understand what the overall impact is.

                              • Grimm1 4 years ago
                                Strongly disagree. Facebook in particular. I'm with you on Amazon, and I founded a search engine because of my ethical beef with Google and general dissatisfaction with their product, their data collection is unethical and their search leaves a lot to be desired particularly for developers.
                                • ActorNightly 4 years ago
                                  Sure, but developers and tech savy people make up a very small percentage of the userbase. Most people don't care.

                                  If you go on the metric of how many people use the products these companies provide versus the drawbacks of using those services, both Facbook and Google are very valuable.

                                  • pjmlp 4 years ago
                                    Yet everyone here jumps of joy using stacks developed with Facebook money like React.
                                  • s1artibartfast 4 years ago
                                    Did you mean should not be ignored?
                              • username90 4 years ago
                                > Are FAANG jobs really that different compared to the rest of opportunities people have in Europe (in the same way that they are in the US)?

                                The difference is exactly the same, just that salaries are much worse overall in Europe so even though FAANG pay the same percentage more those salaries here don't look as impressive. The main reason not a lot of people work for FAANG in Europe is that FAANG doesn't hire a lot of people in Europe so those jobs are really hard to get compared to in USA.

                                • 2rsf 4 years ago
                                  In Sweden FAANG (and MS) are more desirable as their salaries tend to be higher and include more profitable stocks and bonuses. Other than that the technology and work conditions are more or less comparable to local companies.

                                  The only problem is that the local branches tend to be small, probably due to higher costs of salaries, real estate and operations.

                                  • rurban 4 years ago
                                    Our only FAANG here is the state, and yes, this was always a big deal. Low effort, protected job, high income.

                                    We do have the same amount of tech cartels (and other cartels), but working for one is not a big deal here. Here managers do hate engineers, so it's not high profile. And managers working for a FAANG don't have the highest respect neither. They could as well try to get into politics.

                                    • speedgoose 4 years ago
                                      Among all my friends from Europe working in IT, no one works or as far as I know wants to work specifically in a FAANG.
                                      • ActorNightly 4 years ago
                                        Im originaly from EU (immigrated here when I was a kid) and currently work for FAANG, so I have a lot of extended family in Poland/Russia.

                                        To put all of EU into one basket in terms of this is not really accurate. For example, in Russia/Poland and likely other Slavic countries where people saw a much better life when capitalistic principles were adopted, there is definitely a prestige associated with working at a big famous company and earning big bucks. Ironically, there is very much aura of "earn good salary, then spend it on BMW/Merc/Audi and a big house to impress your friends and family" with people from that background, which seems significantly less applicable to native US employees within the company.

                                        Meanwhile, in places like Switzerland/Germany/France, while my exposure to those people is limited (friends of family in Poland/Russia), it seems that people care more about the quality of life than high salary. In those regions, high salaries have traditionally been very hard to get (you need connections almost more than talent), so most people don't see this within reach, and as a result value things like good work life balance, ability to have a family, vacation, and other common things.

                                        • dave_sid 4 years ago
                                          Nope. I’ve never met anyone who expressed a desire to work for FAANG.
                                          • probinso 4 years ago
                                            As far as I can tell, it's not that big of a deal in the US. It might be a big deal in southern California. The US is much bigger than that
                                            • codingprograms 4 years ago
                                              It’s only big deal in the USA because outside FAANG, technology really doesn’t pay that well. There are a few other companies, but your income is capped elsewhere
                                              • hehehaha 4 years ago
                                                You’re forgetting finance. There are plenty coders in finance making multiples over FAANG.
                                                • cromka 4 years ago
                                                  Finance doesn't pay nearly as well as FAANG does. They used to, pre 2008, especially with enormous bonuses, but that is a thing of the past. Maybe with the exception of Goldman Sachs, the other banks rather pay market rates or even below.
                                                  • codingprograms 4 years ago
                                                    Yes this is true. But there aren’t that many of those jobs.
                                                  • akavi 4 years ago
                                                    Non-FAANG companies that I personally know pay senior engineers more than 400 k$/yr in TC: AirBnB, Slack, Square, Uber, Lyft, Dropbox, Twitter, Pinterest, Spotify.

                                                    (This isn't to name the even longer list of private companies that have comparable comp with reasonable assessment of their equity)