On the one hand, it's amazing, it's ~$220 for games.

On the other hand, is this games?

It's so tough out there. Lucas Pope obviously works really hard. Just imagine you're an otherwise successful indie game developer, you put out two amazing games, and it still isn't viable to make a third, in 2021.

That doesn't happen with movies. You make two budget positive or critically acclaimed movies, you get to make a third. You don't have to go and make something else.

At some point, the medium does become important. Every computer no matter how small can do everything now, and limiting games to a specific platform is for the most part arbitrary at this point.

So if you add limitations, or extra buttons! you end up with the rare occurrence of something new! A crank is actually a really cool addition just in terms of experimenting with gameplay.

My initial gut reaction to this product is that I must have it, but I know myself well enough that this would also just sit on a shelf somewhere looking cool but I would never touch it. The games look nice but I'm not a huge fan of it being black and white (just my personal taste). Plus I want to know that there will be a strong community making games, one that won't fizzle out too quick. it's great that Panic is releasing games for them but how long will that last? If they released a color version that ran Pico-8 there would be no question, I'd pre-order it immediately.

That being said, watching the video[1] on the site is making this look really enticing.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeWGukDrc1U

> Teenage Engineering’s products but they have an air “pure consumerism”.

I got bad news for you buddy, video games don't have a functional purpose any greater than beautiful design. You're sort of barking up the wrong tree if you wanna take a dump on something. But I think this was said in good faith, and you should just consider that Teenage Engineering's Pocket Operators have a totally different, literally unpolished aesthetic and also sell very well.

I think you're having this reaction because of the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia. [Nintendo's marketing for the Game Boy focused on the form and function of the device as much as its games](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-ej_8XBwmI). Believe it or not at some point the Game Boy's looks were considered fashionable!

> they have an air “pure consumerism”

It's not clear what you're saying here. What is "pure consumerism"? Are you suggesting that aesthetics is bad? It's a stylish object. People enjoy stylish objects.

> the games are there but not promoted.

that's probably because the developers are still working on the games and aren't ready to fully show them off yet.

Well, it sounds like to me, that TE just did the hardware design, and PANIC is really the one making the decisions for the software/games side.

That being said, Teenage Engineering is one of those brands that has massively disappointed me over time. When the OP-1 came out it was a truly innovative, beautiful, and robust synthesizer... Despite that, everything they make now just seems over-hyped, over-priced, and homogeneous.

I mean their most recent "innovations" are, no-joke: a $600 portable AM/FM + BT radio, whose only real feature is a massive buffer so you can rewind or fast forward in real-time, and a robot that dances to music.

They're great at predictable, minimal design, there is no doubt there, but that's about it.

Also it’s a handheld for which it will be (if all works as advertised) very easy to develop.

One thing that irks me is that the Dev environment is clearly at least public beta ready. I’d like to see and try it before preordering though.

If you want to write a 1 bit retro game at this point, hardware is not what's holding you back. There are thousands of hobbyist 6502 kits you can buy, not to mention retro computers that people keep in like-new condition and put on eBay. (There are lots of people still writing new C64 and Apple II games.) Or you could use an Arduino and LCD. Or, you can just only use one color in a <canvas> tag.

I think what people want is a platform where a captive audience has to play your game, because there aren't any good games for the platform. If you target modern computers, you're competing with games like League of Legends or Overwatch, which have large teams behind them. If you target this shitbox, your competition is some game where you spin a crank so you aren't late to an e-date. Your chance of "winning" is high.

It remains to be seen whether some exclusive game is so good that it sells the console. I only buy Nintendo products so I can play their exclusive games. I would much prefer to run them on my PC, but they demand an extra $500 tax. Good business model! Maybe it can be yours too.

The idea is that it is a non-smartphone device intended to occupy someone and delight someone in small doses. It also intended to drive a community of creativity with it being an open dev platform.

It's just meant to be something fun you can pull out and play for a little while. Just like Teenage Engineering's Pocket Operators were designed to be. I think we might have passed the point of realizing how wonderful it is to make something fun and whimsical with minimal profit ambitions.

Another bit is that the people who built it are legendary software developers who created Audion in the early 2000s (who then turned down an acquisition from Apple to become iTunes so Apple had to buy their worse competitor), Transmit (FTP), Coda, Nova, Prompt, and who published Firewatch and Untitled Goose Game. The idea is that it's a gimmick done hardcore and right.

Seems like a huge amount of interest. Personally I love the idea of whimsical creative ideas come to life.

It's art. It's for people who appreciate video games as art.

Or maybe it's just a goofy little toy for grownups who remember growing up with a Gameboy by their side, and want a whimsical grown-up version that they can keep in their pocket. With a fidget spinner on the side that also acts as an input for some games.

I have two personal use cases

1) Myself, I grew up on a game boy color and I have a nostalgia for playing games where the developers were so bound by compute resources on the device they were developing for. It allowed smaller teams to be very competitive in game design but also enabled a different sort of creativity than what is commonly seen today in game design where resources are virtually unlimited. I've also been wanting to toy with game development for a while now. This seems like a neat and quirky way to jump in.

2) My kid, I think we've gotten far too good at making video games addictive for kids. I want my child to have video games the way I did, with simple graphics, stories and gameplay that come to an end, unlike games like fortnite that you can keep playing for eternity. Added benefit if he gets to experience trying to play games without a backlight using the streetlights to see as you drive down the road.

People who like retro-style indie games, people looking for something new aside from PC/console games, people who want to make games for a handheld, people looking for novelty. People trying to find joy. It's easy to figure out who this is for.

> Who is this built for?

I don't know, but it seems buying a standard console would get you more games and less e-waste.

If the games are good, then it’s for anyone who enjoys good computer games.

If they are not, then it’s not for anyone.

Was thinking that games similar to Obra Dinn would be awesome on this device, but also realize that games of that caliber are a rare thing indeed.

In the long run I'd think that the lack of colors is a deal breaker, so I think you're right this is very much a niche type of product.

it's for people that want to play games on a little yellow brick with a black-and-white screen and a hand crank.

It's for people not really interested in games to buy and then proclaim breathlessly on social media that it's just so amazing and lifechanging, before it goes permanently to a shelf visible in all their Zoom calls to never be played with again.

enthusiasts of video games that are looking for a unique experience.

> slightly scammy

This is highly offensive to me. Making hardware is hard, everyone here should know that. Here we have a company, with a great reputation, taking a big risk to offer us something different, and people's first reaction is to assume bad intentions?

> Just because a well known name is behind a project doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good product or a great idea

Therefore it's a scam? That is quite some logic there.

> For $179 + shipping you're buying a small underpowered device with a black and white screen

They never positioned it as a competitor to a modern portable like the Nintendo Switch so who cares? Do any of those games on the home page look like they need a modern chip?

> They have no actual plans for any kind of centralized distribution for games.

What are you basing that off of? Because they didn't detail the specifics of how the games are going to be distributed?

> Just because a well known name is behind a project doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good product or a great idea.

Indeed, which is why you can wait to buy it until it's out and has been reviewed by others.

>Plenty of great people have made lackluster things

What's something lackluster that Panic has made? They certainly have had misses, but it wasn't because of the quality of the product or attention to detail. They've got a better track record than just about any dev shop.

Here's the original pitch, to give you a sense of what their motives were for making it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190523042100/https://play.date...

It sounds like your biggest complaint is that there's no clear roadmap for the SDK/devkit that people could use to get into game development, and no clear plans for an app store or some other way for devs to then publish their games. This makes you wonder how they're going to build up their game dev ecosystem.

What I gather from the website is that they're coming at it differently: inviting a hand-picked group of game devs (both experienced and new) and heavily curating their products into weekly releases. Rather than showing players a giant app store that is mostly filled with crap, you get 2-6 high quality games per month that silently show up on your system.

It's a different approach for sure, and to me it's well worth the price to see if they can pull it off.

It's not a scam.

> For X you get Y.

Scam would be:

> For X you get WILDCARD.

It's a bundle of 24 high quality games, by talented, diverse and motivated game developers for ~$8 each. And it comes with a free console. Art is worth paying for.

>For $179 + shipping

How much should it be?

If Playdate uses Sharp Memory Displays, that explains part of the price.

These screens are expensive but also very nice.

It’s really nice when they do this but the no JavaScript ship has sailed.

I’d rather devs focus on accessibility for screen readers etc.

I think the population of folks who care is too small to do that.

And honestly a good chunk of that population will still just complain anyhow / might not be persuaded. They already kinda made their call.

I feel the opposite -this speaks to me more than any other device I’ve seen, but I was obsessed with calculator games in high school, spending many hours on ticalc.org and IRC.

You're not wrong, but neither of those devices come with any games (unless you buy a flashcart, which is piracy).

The Playdate cost includes 20 games by (relatively) well known indie game developers.

I’d kill to finally get me an Analogue product, they’re always out of stock whenever I try. :(

It is about $80. The subscription that will make it useful is the other $100 which is what you'll be paying annually to keep using it.

I want to comment that this will be the first toy I've owned in a LONG TIME that has a crank.

And, that I expect I will have fun with it.

Fun is where it's at with a Game Console. I like the artistry but that's just a gateway ... to the fun!

You're missing the point a bit. The focus for this device is on the community: a set of easy to use dev tools, extremely limited input and output in order to keep games focused, a distribution method, and a community built around that all with the same hard- and software, focusing on game dev and each week's new release. I'm pretty excited for it. Yeah it'll be a novelty that will wear off in a few months or maybe a couple years if they're lucky. That's exactly what I'm signing up for.

You want the Analog Pocket: https://www.analogue.co/pocket, but its preorders instantly sold out, and its first shipment has been delayed until end of year.

Or one of the cheaper Chinese devices like the Retroid Pocket or RG531p

Yeah. They do have an SDK coming out soon looks like so I would be shocked if someone DIDN'T put a GB emulator on the thing.

There is also lots and lots of cheap emulator devices these days with more buttons and color screens like the Retroid Pocket 2 and Anbernic RG350 that also cost a fraction of the price.

Price is a bit much for me personally.

The included games seem really creative and interesting, but you're right that it'll be a fun novelty for most people, then get less interesting after a few hours or so.

I think the people who will get a lot out of it are people who get involved in the homebrew community - I spent hundreds of hours on ZZT as a kid, despite the limited ascii graphics. It's not trivial to make your own gameboy game then load it onto an actual gameboy. It seems like they've put a lot of effort into the SDK, game maker, and ease of sideloading new games.

Someone has already made a working Gameboy emulator for it. There is also a Doom port.

https://blog.adafruit.com/2020/07/08/gamekid-a-game-boy-emul...

The ‘subscription’ model fit games could create an interest in competitive community if there were a local/regional/global scoreboard for each new game as they are released.

Important to keep it whimsical though. The competitive gaming scene is… intense.

Crank game mechanic ideas:

safe cracking, catapult aiming, fire burner air balloon adjustment, etc...

My pocket operators disagree - Love them to death, but I just know I'll break them some time soon (and I know I can get a case, but the device itself is NOT build that strongly).

It is. Poolside renamed itself to Poolsuite sometime in the past few weeks. They said something about a trademark infringement claim. (Whether that's real or just part of their cultivated image/backstory, I don't know.)

I was also surprised to learn that the Poolside FM app is now called Poolsuite FM

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/poolside-fm/id1514817810

Way to get out of a trademark infringement maybe..?

http://poolside.fm/ also redirects to https://poolsuite.net/

They were forced to rename

https://twitter.com/Poolsuite/status/1398007075435843592

In their video earlier they said they plan to ensure everyone who wants one can get one. Later orders might take a while but they’re not going to stop taking orders like Analogue does.

I hope I'm able to afford one. At $179, I don't think supply will be a problem.

I got one of those. Unfortunately the controls felt bad and the novelty of my Pico-8 game on there wore out quickly because of the junk feel of the buttons. This I can see being in to for longer.

They're releasing a free SDK for it, you know what you have to do.

There is a game called "Robot Fishing" briefly featured in the video.

/s ?

This is a product of [Panic](https://panic.com). They know how to build a website. And write tools to [build a website](https://nova.app/).

Almost 100% Panic.

See their other sites: https://nova.app, https://panic.com/transmit/

I think they are starting on the right foot. Ouya seemed to sell the idea that it might compare with hardcore consoles where it was nothing close. This seems to sell an idea where the hardware and games are one and sell itself as something silly and whimsical.

I am very much a fan of Apple products and enjoy a lot of the commentary from these apple pundits but it does feel a lot like this in-club that once you are a part of it anything you do will be praised by that group.

I feel strongly that that is the case here. From anyone outside of the bubble I feel like ultimately it’s a quirky toy for rich techies that will probably be used a couple times before the novelty wears off and you go back to playing games on almost anything else.

It looks lilke Ruby but it's actually PulpScript, and it looks like they made it for this.

It's Lua. They support Lua and C.

https://play.date/dev/

From what I have read Tthey are using lua and have an sdk library similar to love2d.org

Most likely Lua. The developer page says the SDK supports Lua and C.

Looks like a Ruby DSL to me

I think comparisons to the ouya are pretty on the nose. Before the ouya came out gaming hipsters were all hyped about it. then it came out and it was a flop. I don't think this will be a "flop" because they are pricing it so high and this isn't panic's main business but I do think it will be quickly forgotten about.

OUYA was a good idea until no new games.. lol if I could get the play store on jt I'd be using mine to play games

their original dev signup applications described the SDK as supporting C and Lua. Pulp appears to be targetting the non-programmer gamedev scene, like Bitsy and GB Studio do currently. It looks a lot like Bitsy. They seem pretty separate.

> The SDK will be available on macOS, Windows, and Linux. There are two ways to write games: using Lua, for ease of development; or using C, for games that need extra performance. You can also use both languages in the same project. Typical SDK abilities are included: graphics, sound, inputs, text, collisions, etc. We continue to add features every day!

^ that's from https://play.date/dev/

That would be interesting. Can someone who took a Physics class calculate how much energy you could get by cranking (and maybe how many cranks you'd need) to charge this bad boy up?

Speaking of charging, does anyone know if usb-c charging is properly implemented? I've bought a number of new devices with usb-c and am disappointed they require the old usb-a to usb-c cable to charge. Has anyone tested with a Macbook charger, or a "smart" usb-c to usb-c cable?

I think the hardware is notably whimsical (crank, very nice 1-bit display combined with ‘fast’ processor). I agree that there’s a lot hanging on marketing/hype, but part of it is just how people like Panic overall.

All Panic stuff is like that - they have great style.

> but it's presented and marketed in a way that makes it interesting.

And I’m not even sure about that. At least the info on the link seems very scarce and the featured video was mostly a bunch of people talking and very little gameplay. I guess I’m not the target audience as this didn’t seem exciting to me at all. Couldn’t finish watching the video.

It's having exclusive games made for it by some pretty famous game developers. It has a unique input device. It looks and behaves like a modern gameboy. It will openly let you tinker and dev with it yourself. It's like a dream gameboy.

I disagree - the key innovation is that you buy the device, and get all the games included for free.

I think that consumers have grown weary of buying individual games, and would rather just pay a lump sum or subscription.

> The device is nothing extraordinary (imo)

This is it: the peak Hacker News comment. A gizmo with a handcrank and a black and white screen is nothing out of the ordinary in 2021. I bet you could even make it yourself in a weekend if you just use a Raspberry Pi and an e-ink screen!

Yeah, this is going to go the way of the Ouya, but with even LESS success.

I wonder how well the name will go over with wider audience. My first thought was is that some kind of dating service? Why is it on HN...

Subtract the word "only" and you've got it.

I suspect the market is there to enable modest success, for the same reason cassette labels flourished.

Nobody is buying this thing because it's cheap.

First, it's coming from Panic. They have enough fans that they can probably sell out the first run just on their reputation.

Secondly, the industrial design looks great or at least novel. For $180 you get a neat looking toy and are supporting the development of new stuff. $180 feels like a sustainable price.

It is a lot of money, but for many people on HN $180 is an easy impulse buy.

You could do it in a weekend, right?