Binance lays off over 1k Employees

218 points by jason_zig 1 year ago | 219 comments
  • toomuchtodo 1 year ago
    • ot 1 year ago
      > It was not easy saying no to Super bowl ads, stadium naming rights, large sponsor deals a few months ago, but we did. Today, we are hiring for 2000 open positions for #Binance.

      https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1537013824666095617

      Jun 2022, didn't age well.

      • arp242 1 year ago
        Knew someone who worked at Binance, as support. I'm sure he's competent enough at his job, but he has no special skills or anything. He made more money than I did as a senior software dev at the time. It seems not only did they hire a lot of people, they also paid them an ungodly amount of money.
        • justapassenger 1 year ago
          High salaries are part of the grift.

          Makes you look really successful (they pay a lot, so they must be super profitable!) and helps, at least partially, select employees who won’t be asking questions, just do their job and collect paychecks.

          • nzrf 1 year ago
            This comment reminds me of the movie Boiler room and now that I think of it reminds me of this whole crypto industry imo.
            • baby 1 year ago
              [flagged]
              • MrYellowP 1 year ago
                [flagged]
              • ethanbond 1 year ago
                Probably mitigates the risk of whistleblowers, if you can keep it up.
                • arp242 1 year ago
                  I guess that's a possibility, ut my bet is they just had more money flowing around than sense.
                • gumby 1 year ago
                  Hope for their sake they were paid in actual money.
                  • victords 1 year ago
                    They did pay their bonus in some Binance crypto coin, but at least their base salary was relatively high.
                  • CydeWeys 1 year ago
                    It sounds like he didn't make that much money for long. Better to have a real career where you're making good money every year, year after year.
                    • freeone3000 1 year ago
                      I don’t think those exist. It is much, much better to continually hop when the raises are 20% or more for doing so.
                      • fatfingerd 1 year ago
                        Doing a support role on a titanic is just as much potential beginnings of a good career that pays forever. I've known plenty of devs and bar passing lawyers that got nowhere in their career and plenty of support engineers that followed roughly the same user base across multiple bankrupt software companies.
                      • rvz 1 year ago
                        Right. so Binance over-hired and over-paid for roles just like the rest of the tech industry in 2021 - 2022 then, as the free money and zero interest rate mania came to an end.
                        • brycelarkin 1 year ago
                          Cash comp or was he also compensated in tokens?
                          • Asparagirl 1 year ago
                            Important point — many of these employees were “paid” at least half of their salary in the company’s own scrip, a shitcoin, and with extra social pressure to not convert it to real money.
                            • arp242 1 year ago
                              Knowing myself I probably asked if he got paid in real money or monopoly money, but I don't recall the answer. It's a friend of a friend I've spoken to a few times over the last ten years, and the last time was a little over a year ago (when we talked about his job, among other things).
                            • Canada 1 year ago
                              Did they really pay him a high salary, or did he take his salary in BNB which then massively increased in price?
                            • koolba 1 year ago
                              > Jun 2022, didn't age well.

                              A public statement lasting a year in the Wild West that is crypto isn’t the worst.

                              Though that’s primarily due to the lowness of the bar.

                              • musicale 1 year ago
                                > saying no to ... stadium naming rights

                                That has actually aged well.

                                • jdjdjdhhd 1 year ago
                                  Aged not too bad I would say
                                • benreesman 1 year ago
                                  I haven’t paid any serious attention to crypto-type markets in a while but historically BTC/USDT was a pretty good number to look at if you could only look at one and it’s (glances)…whoa back above 30k? That’s not like peak tulip or even close but historically like, high-ish I think. I don’t particularly feel like reading the entrails of the crypto chicken at the moment so I’m going to assume that the crypto market (including the perpetual futures and stuff where Binance makes the big bucks) isn’t lying in ruins. I’m sure someone will let me know if that’s way off.

                                  8 thousand people is not a lot for a company doing trillions of dollars of transactions in dozens of countries most which have at least some regulation. That would be a lot if they were all engineers and quants, but even there, an electronic stock market is a tricky little devil to build and operate.

                                  So is this a bad outlook for crypto, a serious setback in the various regulatory battles, or just another brick in the wall of what is increasing looking like Don’t Poach Gate 2.0? (Sorry Bond Villains, the kids were going to hear about that eventually.)

                                  • acaloiar 1 year ago
                                    Everything you need to know about crypto today can be found at https://web3isgoinggreat.com/
                                    • trotro 1 year ago
                                      I know this is tongue in cheek, but there's a lot more to crypto than the scams and failed projects exposed on web3isgoinggreat.

                                      One example is all the amazing new research in zero-knowledge proofs, MPC, FHE, and modern cryptography in general, that is motivated and funded by cryptocurrency projects.

                                      • ChainOfFools 1 year ago
                                        Yes, I'll acknowledge that there may be a handful of capable researchers who are able to progress on some basic science by accepting free money from a scam industry which is indiscriminately shoveling it at anything that might appear to legitimize itself.

                                        Just as, in days of old, those who wished to do legitimate (and costly) science had frame their research as supporting alchemical beliefs leading to discovery of immortality, or means to make gold from lead.

                                        and astronomers who wished to build an observatory had to go along with some highly flimsy justification about how it could serve as a means to prognosticate the birth of an heir or victory in battle for some petty murderous strongman.

                                        • dpflan 1 year ago
                                          How much do these ideas depend upon the concept of blockchain?
                                        • tim333 1 year ago
                                          That site focuses on the bad stuff but crypto goes on. Maybe check https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/ for balance.
                                          • vorticalbox 1 year ago
                                            > and is definitely not an enormous grift that's pouring lighter fluid on our already smoldering planet.

                                            This is actually a worry i have about in regards to crypto, the BTC network uses a staggering amount of power.

                                            Ai is next of my power hungry worry list.

                                            • rvz 1 year ago
                                              > This is actually a worry i have about in regards to crypto, the BTC network uses a staggering amount of power.

                                              Crypto has alternative consensus methods available today and a former PoW blockchain (Ethereum) was able to cut their emissions by 99.9% by moving to a efficient alternative with Proof-of-Stake. For crypto it is possible.

                                              AI (Deep Learning) on the other hand has no efficient alternative methods available for training, fine-tuning and inference and continues to waste tons of water and consume more resources.

                                              > Ai is next of my power hungry worry list

                                              It should be the main concern. The top of your list even, hence the aforementioned points today. Deep Learning has no efficient solutions to its energy problem which remains to this day after decades of its existence.

                                              • nkuttler 1 year ago
                                                > the BTC network uses a staggering amount of power

                                                Actually, bitcoin uses a ridiculously small amount of power for what it provides. See for example here https://www.lynalden.com/bitcoin-energy/ for an introduction to clear up this misconception.

                                            • spamizbad 1 year ago
                                              Just speculating, but I imagine BTC does well because there's way less competition sloshing around in the crypto world these days. The NFT craze is over, 20 ultra-hyped crypto coins aren't being launched every second, there's fewer (illegal) securities floating around. So if you want to be in crypto, but things are scary, and you're looking for something safe? It's Bitcoin.
                                              • bardak 1 year ago
                                                From my view there is room for sustainable crypto businesses but they get crowed out by the big unsustainable crypto businesses that were entirely relying on huge gains in price.

                                                That being said whatever practical uses there are for crypto is entirely detached from the value of crypto.

                                                • RestlessMind 1 year ago
                                                  The biggest practical use for crypto (specifically Bitcoin, as a store of value) is entirely dependent on the value of crypto.
                                                • tippytippytango 1 year ago
                                                  bitcoin and crypto have long since parted ways, they are different things now. even from a regulatory perspective bitcoin is the only one that has clarity being defined as a commodity and not a security, everything else is in a grey area
                                                  • meowkit 1 year ago
                                                    This isn't accurate.

                                                    BTC has the best legal argument for being treated as a commodity, but there has been no legislative decision on this.

                                                    The CTFC sees BTC and ETH as commodities. Gensler pre-SEC said BTC, ETC, and LTC are commodities. The SEC and Gensler post-SEC says they are all securities, except maybe BTC.

                                                    The Ripple decision (Yesterday) says that unless a crypto is contractually sold to an investor (e.g. not directly listed via an exchange) then its doesn't fall under the Howey test.

                                                    https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-says-sec-lawsuit-vs-r...

                                                • davidgerard 1 year ago
                                                  number is one thing, but volume is through the floor
                                                  • MuffinFlavored 1 year ago
                                                    How much is it down % wise compared to what period previously?
                                                    • davidgerard 1 year ago
                                                      solid numbers are sometimes not so easy to find - you should presume that any number in crypto that could be faked is being faked - but there's clearly been a serious decline.

                                                      Coinbase reveals in 10-K and 10-Q filings how it's lost over 75% of retail customers, i.e. the guys who supply the scarce actual dollars to crypto.

                                                      CoinDesk has been running regular articles on how it's down, e.g.

                                                      * https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/07/05/crypto-trading-v... - "Still, spot trading volumes remain at historically low levels. Spot trading volume in the second quarter was the lowest since Q4 2019, according to the report."

                                                      * https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/06/15/crypto-trading-v... - "Average daily volumes for the second quarter of 2023 were $10 billion for the top 10 tokens (excluding stablecoins), compared to $18 billion average daily volumes in the first quarter of the year."

                                                      this is important, because a thin market means the price is more easily fakeable. The TrueUSD stablecoin seems to have lost its backing recently, but simultaneously with that Binance somehow printed $2b worth of TrueUSD. What could you do to the bitcoin price if you had $2b of fake money to do it with?

                                                    • automatic6131 1 year ago
                                                      Hi David! I love your blog and your twitter
                                                    • simple-thoughts 1 year ago
                                                      There’s been a lot of advancements during this bear market (which is the longest bear market in crypto history). Most of the interesting advances have been along the decentralized application front, although there’s also been a lot of more fundamental advances as well. For instance Bitcoin now has ordinals that allow the inscription of altcoins and nfts on the chain. The more interesting applications are not on Bitcoin since the block time is too slow and expense is too high for the general public.

                                                      Applications that have seen major technical advancements since 2020 include identity, gaming, money markets, trade routing, anti fraud, derivatives, concentrated liquidity, token launchpads, smart nfts, social media, and cross chain communication.

                                                      My opinion is that of these blockchain gaming will likely be the most successful in the next bull cycle. Axie and cryptokitties from the previous cycle were extremely limited and unfun, with axie also having issues with design centralization that led to the huge North Korean hack. These issues will probably still exist but there are now technical solutions.

                                                      • spaceman_2020 1 year ago
                                                        The SEC just lost its case against Ripple, so I don’t know what’s happening on the regulatory front.
                                                        • raesene9 1 year ago
                                                          It didn't lose the whole case, it lost certain summary judgement issues, and prevailed on others, the real case there is still to come.

                                                          It was overall a bit of a win for ripple but far from the end of the game.

                                                          • treyd 1 year ago
                                                            The ruling published yesterday was just summary judgements which can be appealed. The actual trial hasn't even happened yet.
                                                            • monero-xmr 1 year ago
                                                              The trial isn’t interesting. The summary judgment says it’s legal to sell cryptocurrencies if you do so anonymously on retail exchanges, and the tokens also are not securities. Very interesting outcome. The appeals are likely to fail from my reading of various analyses.
                                                          • 1 year ago
                                                            • JeremyNT 1 year ago
                                                              It's bizarre to me too. I think there must be some seriously big holders doing wash trading to prop things up on paper.

                                                              Anecdotally, all of the normies I know of who were really "into crypto" during the pandemic are coming around to thinking of the whole thing as a shark pit full of scams. There can't be that much new blood out there left to recruit to the pyramid at this point.

                                                              • jasmer 1 year ago
                                                                The price of all crypto is managed. All exchanges have a huge % of wash trading to hold up prices, and insiders with giant ownership stakes manipulate markets. All exchanges are either a scam, or 'implicitly colluding' with shady things.

                                                                BTC is ironically not a very free market in that sense, moreover, because nobody needs it for anything, it has a buy-hold characteristic.

                                                                If people needed BTC for things (which would force some liquidity ops) then we'd see a price that reflected something.

                                                                Crypto markets are essentially 'schemes' of one kind or another, they serve no purpose other than to be a hustle.

                                                                If people want to play dumb games, that's fine, as long as they are doing it legally and it doesn't rope in a lot of external players.

                                                                • ceejayoz 1 year ago
                                                                  Precisely this. It's like being pleased about the value of your Madoff holdings. Looks great, on paper, until too many people try to cash out at once.
                                                                  • pfisch 1 year ago
                                                                    I mean you could say that about any stock or bank. If everyone tries to cash out it goes to 0.
                                                                  • MuffinFlavored 1 year ago
                                                                    > All exchanges have a huge % of wash trading to hold up prices

                                                                    Even "knowing this" (I mean, none of us have really any proof just at what scale it's happening at and... the same things happens in the S&P500 with high frequency trading algorithms/bots trading back and forth, hedge funds, institutional investors, etc.) I don't feel like I can confidently explain who/how many people really dollar cost average into Bitcoin that can prop it up to $10k, $20k, $30k, etc.

                                                                    Where/who are the buyers? How many people across the world are actively STILL investing directly into BTC to the point where it's up 80-90% YTD?

                                                                    • rationalist 1 year ago
                                                                      > none of us have really any proof just at what scale it's happening at

                                                                      True, but there was an exchange a few months ago that turned off trading for customers for whatever reason, but the exchange forgot to turn of its bot and you could see a perfectly-formed, gradually-increasing, stair-stepping pattern in it's price chart.

                                                                      • jasmer 1 year ago
                                                                        Finance is extremely regulated even if there are shenanigans, Crypto is just an excuse to do finance without oversight, which means it's mostly shady.

                                                                        Every attempt to peel away the onion layer reveals mass problems.

                                                                        It's like saying 'we have no hard proof that all this Mafia gangs revenue came from illegal activity!'.

                                                                        What I'm saying is, the point of crypto is hustle, there is no real economy, and the players are all shady as can be.

                                                                        Literally nobody knows where the Binance guy even is!

                                                                        Why would the Binance guy want to hide from global authorities?

                                                                        Regular bank CEO's don't.

                                                                        It's mafia-adjacent the whole way down, with a lot of small dupes and kids playing with some amount of money.

                                                                        There is no 'there there' in the value creating sense that we might want to see.

                                                                        If you told me BTC was 95% regular people using it for business and 5% shady, I'd say we need to work on that problem. But it's only 5% 'useful' and the rest is just layers of scam and fraud.

                                                                        We need to dump crypto, and if we want to try that experiment again - because I think there might be value there - we can give it a new name and keep it clean from the start.

                                                                  • zeitgeistcowboy 1 year ago
                                                                    The article says a spokesperson said they "need to focus on talent density." Talent density is a new buzz word to me!
                                                                    • ehnto 1 year ago
                                                                      Only the densest talent available made the cut. Part of this new talent push was upgrading the chairs, to handle the increased talent density. Our people are 90% tungsten and it's something we are really proud of.
                                                                      • ineedasername 1 year ago
                                                                        The next big crypto scandal headline:

                                                                        ”Authorities Investigating <DeFi Corp> as Evidence that Depleted Uranium Propped Up Dense Talent, Actually Empty Inside”

                                                                        • FreshStart 1 year ago
                                                                          Stalionstatues.. Each and every ounce.
                                                                          • stubybubs 1 year ago
                                                                            Osmium devs are the new 10x devs.
                                                                          • CoastalCoder 1 year ago
                                                                            Man, that seems like a heck of a send-off for those employees.

                                                                            There's no fig-leaf such as "they killed entire projects" or "they pivoted".

                                                                            Just the spokesperson saying that, if you're one of the laid-off employees, it's because you lacked talent.

                                                                            Not sure that's a company I'd want to work for.

                                                                            • kodah 1 year ago
                                                                              I worked for a large fintech firm that used this as reasoning to layoff 700-some employees years ago. They cited their changing needs and the talent of those engineers juxtaposed to their needs changing. I had seven friends among those engineers, only one of which I would consider in a grey area with respect to the skills he possessed that were relevant to the times. The company refused to release a full list of employees that were let go so we used Slack to create a list of users deactivated between certain time periods (this gets tricky with EU). What we learned is that most of them were tenured employees with higher wages. Their wages (likely) predated a movement that caused average wages at the company to go down so that everyone on every team with the same title made the same amount. These were basically the people left over who didn't quit but stopped getting raises because they were above pay bands for their level.
                                                                              • throwaway5959 1 year ago
                                                                                Sounds like something straight out of the end of Margin Call.
                                                                            • tikhonj 1 year ago
                                                                              Implying you'd have to be pretty dense to work at Binance.
                                                                              • slt2021 1 year ago
                                                                                are they bashing people they laid off, assuming that 1k people were less talented than the rest?
                                                                                • account-5 1 year ago
                                                                                  Sound like that's exactly what they're doing.
                                                                                  • whimsicalism 1 year ago
                                                                                    yes
                                                                                    • WinstonSmith84 1 year ago
                                                                                      No offence, but that's usually how capitalism works, the least talented are the first to go - unless we're talking about Twitter and then it's about showing off at the office.
                                                                                      • adamredwoods 1 year ago
                                                                                        Never in any layoff I've been a part of, have the least talented workers been let go first. It's usually by category: contractors, age (early-retirement), department, or job description.
                                                                                        • nonameiguess 1 year ago
                                                                                          I highly doubt that's true. It may be what you want in an ideal world, but in reality, very few, if any, companies of this size have any internal ranking system that can accurately identify the 1000 least talented people company-wide. More likely, they're laying off the last 1000 hired if they want to optimize for losing the least institutional knowledge, the first 1000 hired if they want to optimize for immediate labor cost savings, or just laying off all the people that are part of teams working on projects that got scrapped, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
                                                                                          • yourapostasy 1 year ago
                                                                                            In larger companies, for some values of “talented” that comprises non-technical factors like political acumen, yes. If the “talented” label is meant as a shorthand for some kind of meritocratic scale, then I have my doubts about that.

                                                                                            I’ve long since lost my astonishment at the revealed preferences in layoff selection criteria. It isn’t a complete Machiavellian free-for-all, but merit and fine-grained logic usually don’t prevail at the top of the criteria list in the trenches.

                                                                                            • tuckerpo 1 year ago
                                                                                              If your statement is true, then the inverse must also hold: hiring is based on merit, which we all know to be untrue.
                                                                                              • 1 year ago
                                                                                                • JohnFen 1 year ago
                                                                                                  I've heard people claim this, but I've never actually seen it happen in practice.
                                                                                              • pzo 1 year ago
                                                                                                Seems like easy to optimize for it - just keep only the best 1 talent and fire everyone else!
                                                                                                • bink 1 year ago
                                                                                                  Congrats to the most talented. You're now doing the work of 5 people.
                                                                                                • 1 year ago
                                                                                                  • cozzyd 1 year ago
                                                                                                    sounds like they need smaller offices.
                                                                                                  • WestCoastJustin 1 year ago
                                                                                                    > Binance had a global staff of 8,000

                                                                                                    A 12.5% reduction. Also, they are way larger than I thought with 8k employees. I don't know what's involved with running an exchange but they must be into lots of things with that many folks.

                                                                                                    • ecshafer 1 year ago
                                                                                                      NYSE has around 2000 employees. So I think this is more than they need.
                                                                                                      • 1 year ago
                                                                                                        • 1-more 1 year ago
                                                                                                          OTOH NYSE operates in NY and US jurisdictions right? Binance tries to operate everywhere.
                                                                                                          • SideburnsOfDoom 1 year ago
                                                                                                            > Binance tries to operate everywhere.

                                                                                                            Under which legal jurisdiction does Binance operate? It's not "all of them". I'm not sure that it's "any of them".

                                                                                                        • javajosh 1 year ago
                                                                                                          In some corporate cultures, headcount is its own reward.
                                                                                                          • WinstonSmith84 1 year ago
                                                                                                            There are dozens of protocols they need to integrate with and keep up to date. Plus, those protocols change constantly. And there are also new ones, and those which disappear... And then, there is their whole infrastructure.

                                                                                                            The support must be massive too. And the legal aspect must also keep people busy from having to enforce various regulations to having to answer to various governments...

                                                                                                            So let's take a comparison: - facebook: 50k employee. What has changed on Facebook for the last few years? So yes, there is probably some support, the content enforcement of course must keep a lot of people busy, but then?..

                                                                                                            - snapchat: 5k employee. Well, for a social media platform which is not changing at all and actually losing in revenue, that's a big number

                                                                                                            • atraac 1 year ago
                                                                                                              > facebook: 50k employee. What has changed on Facebook for the last few years?

                                                                                                              What do you mean? Facebook changes literally every day. Every single day a piece of UI randomly stops working.

                                                                                                              • mvdtnz 1 year ago
                                                                                                                You're assuming (in both the Binance and Facebook cases) that the majority of headcount comes from product development teams. Not true. The majority of that 8k/50k figure comes from areas like sales, compliance, finance, HR and management.
                                                                                                              • bdcravens 1 year ago
                                                                                                                They have around 100M registered users, so approximately 1 employee for every 100k users seems reasonable.
                                                                                                                • loeg 1 year ago
                                                                                                                  That figure seems implausibly high. 1 in 80 humans on Earth are not only participating in crypto but specifically have an account on Binance? It certainly cannot be the number of active users.
                                                                                                                  • spaceman_2020 1 year ago
                                                                                                                    If its indeed true, the gap between onchain and offchain users is even more immense.

                                                                                                                    On chain, there are not more than 100k users across chains daily. Real users across all EVM chains is probably around 20k/day. Major airdrops like Optimism and Arbitrum went out to like 600k wallets (and most have multiple wallets). OpenSea has like a few thousand daily active users.

                                                                                                                    Which makes you wonder - all these billions in funding for serving just…100k real users? Because if its not onchain, it might as well be a database.

                                                                                                                    • 1 year ago
                                                                                                                      • schmichael 1 year ago
                                                                                                                        It has been reported that CZ had 300 accounts himself, so like most things in crypto the 100M number is to be taken with a grain of salt.
                                                                                                                      • WestCoastJustin 1 year ago
                                                                                                                        Yes, totally. They probably have tons of support, sales, etc. I'd imagine they have tons of contractors too with that many users. Makes sense now.
                                                                                                                      • alfalfasprout 1 year ago
                                                                                                                        To be fair, exchanges are pretty complicated. That said, it seems like a pretty high number.
                                                                                                                        • tempsy 1 year ago
                                                                                                                          you need a lot of operations people like customer service for an exchange. not really surprising.
                                                                                                                          • UniverseHacker 1 year ago
                                                                                                                            I don't know if I'm just naive, but I'm always confused when I see such a high headcount for companies with such simple tech, the staff of Twitter (even after mass layoffs) confuses me also.

                                                                                                                            I feel like these companies are solving a relatively simple problem, and a single skilled engineer working full time could probably make and maintain a decent scalable solution.

                                                                                                                            • Guvante 1 year ago
                                                                                                                              I mean feel free to make the next Twitter with a single Engineer if you think it is possible.
                                                                                                                              • Tao3300 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                Twitter is a weird example. The next Twitter has to be at least as good as Twitter without the growing pains. The initial product didn't scale well and probably was written quickly by very few people.
                                                                                                                              • jacquesm 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                Simple tech at scale rarely stays simple.
                                                                                                                                • 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                  • julianeon 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                    An exchange is not simple tech. It isn't a simple problem.
                                                                                                                                    • HWR_14 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                      Isn't it "an exchange at scale is not simple tech". I'd imagine I could build an exchange to handle 100 users pretty quickly.
                                                                                                                                    • 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                      • sonicshadow 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                        True sign of the arrogant software engineer, believing they can single-handedly recreate an entire company just because they went to school in one subject for 4 years.
                                                                                                                                        • rognjen 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                          Such vitriol! It's safer to assume they're inexperienced than arrogant.
                                                                                                                                          • 8n4vidtmkvmk 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                            I work at one such company and I still think most of us aren't needed. I swear it's 90% red tape and BS holding everyone back. I know I can build things 30x faster outside of work, but I will also confess that it might not meet at the accessibility guidelines and i18n and be user tested and so forth.
                                                                                                                                            • 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                              • RugnirViking 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                every profession does this. Have you ever spoken to marketers about how important marketing is? or accountants? most people have a massively outsized idea of their own role to the point they wonder what other people even do.

                                                                                                                                                The only difference with engineers is they can believe at least in theory they could create the backbone of some services, so they could have a shoddy mvp made in a few days which they assume just needs a "little" work to top it off, whereas others can't start without tech help, but massively underestimate how much tech work is required for their ideas.

                                                                                                                                                If you dont believe me, hang around a startup space and see how people talk about trying to find technical cofounders

                                                                                                                                          • resolutebat 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                            > As we prepare for the next major bull cycle, it has become clear that we need to focus on talent density across the organization to ensure we remain nimble and dynamic. This is not a case of rightsizing, but rather, re-evaluating whether we have the right talent and expertise in critical roles.

                                                                                                                                            This is some next level PR "major bull" right here. Not only are they claiming with a straight face that these are not layoffs, but they're saying it's happening because crypto is about to rocket to the moon! (As opposed to, say, Binance being currently raked over the coals by every financial regulator on the planet.)

                                                                                                                                            • robocat 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                              Off topic, but Binance UI and onboarding is a complete tipster fire.

                                                                                                                                              A binance user asked me to pay USD40 using binance: I went through the process of signing up - it was incredibly difficult with significant roadblocks at every step - horrific UI choices.

                                                                                                                                              A company that fails to onboard a paying user is not going to do well.

                                                                                                                                              The only reason I made it through the onboarding was that I was very stubborn and I have sufficient knowledge to eventually work past the worst UI blocks. It was an extremely frustrating and confusing process.

                                                                                                                                              Even once I had passed the KYC compliance and got money deposited (more nightmare), the UI is still a shitfest of unclear usability. So many obvious failures at every step.

                                                                                                                                              Also they had an incentive system to refer someone, but it appears to be completely broken so even their signup incentives are a failure.

                                                                                                                                              I have never had such a poor experience trying to give a company some money.

                                                                                                                                              • mythrwy 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                Their trading platform used to be awesome though although I haven't been on it since they banned US users 5 or 6 years ago. It was very well done in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                              • ElevenLathe 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                It's pretty insane that they have this many employees to start with.

                                                                                                                                                > Before the layoffs, Binance had a global staff of 8,000.

                                                                                                                                                The whole thing is self-evidently a massive scam! There are still 7,000 people working there!

                                                                                                                                                • SamReidHughes 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                  Binance is a crypto exchange. Where's the scam?
                                                                                                                                                • moneywoes 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                  Interesting I recall them mentioning how they were resistant to the market turmoil that caused Coinbase to conduct their layoffs
                                                                                                                                                  • ansible 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                    Well, they're also being sued by the SEC...
                                                                                                                                                  • michelb 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                    I deleted my Binance account last month but still get service email (because I'm a 'client') without the ability to unsubscribe or turn it off (I have no account). All contact is ignored. Great company.
                                                                                                                                                    • theusus 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                      I remember getting an interview opportunity a couple of months ago. And the hiring manager said they are going fine. Didn't age well
                                                                                                                                                      • ForOldHack 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                        How did they have 1000 people in the first place?
                                                                                                                                                        • john_max_1 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                          Companies don't hire people.

                                                                                                                                                          Managers do.

                                                                                                                                                          If I am a Director of Engineering with 5 reports and you are a Director of Engineering with 10 reports then you are going for the VP of Eng role on next promotion.

                                                                                                                                                          Like it or hate it that's why every company bloats up over time.

                                                                                                                                                          Company pays salaries.

                                                                                                                                                          And you enlarge your status.

                                                                                                                                                          • peschu 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                            The article saysthat they had 8000 before layoffs started... What are all these people doing at an exchange? Maybe they work with orders on paper in the background? :D
                                                                                                                                                            • retube 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                              They operate in 100 countries, have 30m users, support trading in 360 coins PLUS a load of derivatives on top and process $15bn of trades per day. And they are not just "an exchange". They are also custody, clearing and settlements. Frankly I am amazed they are only 8,000.
                                                                                                                                                              • peschu 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                Idk...throwing around big numbers, implying confidence does not convince me. Also your numbers are mostly not neccessarily related to the amount of workforce needed.

                                                                                                                                                                For example my blog/website operates theoretically in all countries on the world ...still it's only me needed. I think you get the point.

                                                                                                                                                                I think a measure like active users is more related to the size than number of countries and coins/tokens ...

                                                                                                                                                                But it is true I focused a too much on the platform itself etc. They have a lot stuff going on around it for legal, kyc, regulations, Marketing etc ... The operation of the platform itself is probably not the biggest part of their business anymore.

                                                                                                                                                                But coinbase for example, does it with less than 5000 ... But probably not so easy to compare

                                                                                                                                                          • RyanAdamas 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                            We just need a law that bans cryptographic exchanges and transfers in the USA. They are not assets, they provide no real utility, they are just speculative devices that no longer function as originally intended; as a replacement for fiat currency. So, it simply needs to be outlawed and all the money repatriated into whatever currency it came from; most of it dollars.
                                                                                                                                                            • chrisco255 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                              First provide me with a universal, legal definition of asset, before we argue about whether or not something is an asset. Nevermind that I'm sure if I pried into the particulars of your life, I would find something cryptographic or digital that belongs to you, which you would be disappointed to live without, even if it's meaningless to most people. And as a lover of liberty, I would never wish to deprive you of the right to own it and transfer it to whomever you wish under whatever acceptable terms you both come to.
                                                                                                                                                              • HWR_14 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                > I would find something cryptographic or digital that belongs to you, which you would be disappointed to live without

                                                                                                                                                                That "or digital" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. You are effectively claiming that crypto has to be allowed or digital photos with friends are right behind.

                                                                                                                                                                • RyanAdamas 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                  First, provide me with a universal definition of liberty. I would hate for you to infringe on other peoples and so would need you to clarify a valid and sound method for determining in all cases where yours begins and others ends. Then, apply it to the functions and limitations of a democratic system for determining those boundaries and from there we can begin to unravel the complexity of bad faith arguments and red herrings.

                                                                                                                                                                  You can have my cryptokitties.

                                                                                                                                                                • vegasbrianc 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                  The federal courts disagree with your opinion today https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-07-13/what-d...
                                                                                                                                                                  • RyanAdamas 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                    No, they didn't. They disagreed with a federal agency's attempt to regulate. They didn't overturn a law banning cryptocurrencies.
                                                                                                                                                                    • peyton 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                      There’s gotta be a compelling government interest like health or safety, right? I don’t think “crypto is useless junk” will hold up to strict scrutiny.
                                                                                                                                                                  • arbol 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                    This seems pretty out of touch. They're the first challenger to fiat currencies ever. Outlawing them will stifle any innovation that arises from their development.
                                                                                                                                                                    • itsoktocry 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                      >Outlawing them will stifle any innovation that arises from their development.

                                                                                                                                                                      This seems pretty out of touch.

                                                                                                                                                                      I own some crypto. Mostly BTC, some ETH and even a bit of XRP I've held onto. I can see the utility, maybe. But, what innovation is happening in this space? It's mostly scam after scam.

                                                                                                                                                                      There are literally thousands of coins on CoinMarketCap. What are they all doing?

                                                                                                                                                                      • dragonwriter 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                        > They're the first challenger to fiat currencies ever.

                                                                                                                                                                        Direct commodity and commodity-representational currencies were the first challengers to fiat currencies, and for about the first millenium after the first know fiat was introduced, generally won.

                                                                                                                                                                        Cryptocurrency is not the “first challenger to fiat currency ever”.

                                                                                                                                                                        • chrisco255 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                          Nothing is ever "won". The world remains as dynamic as ever. Pride comes before fall, as they say.

                                                                                                                                                                          Also, until the 70s, USD was backed by gold.

                                                                                                                                                                          • stale2002 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                            Hey, quick question dragonwriter.

                                                                                                                                                                            Previously, you tried to say that FB was going to, I don't know, Sue startups who use LLAMA or something, due to them not yet releasing a commerical license, with a permissive license?

                                                                                                                                                                            Do you still stand by this statement, now that FB has commercially released a large language model?

                                                                                                                                                                            And then question 2 would be, what possible argument could someone say to you, to have convinced you that your previous argument was not justified, given that new evidence has proven that to be the case?

                                                                                                                                                                          • Tao3300 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                            > the first challenger to fiat currencies ever

                                                                                                                                                                            Except they fail at that. Any further innovation will be more of the same: grift.

                                                                                                                                                                            • RyanAdamas 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                              Outlawing Cryptographic exchanges and transfers are not outlawing distributed ledger technology nor networks with tokens not denominated or traded in US dollars.
                                                                                                                                                                              • mehlmao 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                The only notable innovation to come from cryptocurrencies is the rise of ransomware, a drain on the global economy that funds terrorists and dictatorships.
                                                                                                                                                                                • tlb 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                  There was ransomware in the 90s. For small amounts, they often requested prepaid gift cards or for you to call premium phone numbers. For larger amounts, wire transfers to countries with weak law enforcement.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Cyberextortion rings still operate out of countries with weak law enforcement or tacit approval of their governments, so I don't know if disappearance of cryptocurrency would hurt them much.

                                                                                                                                                                              • imchillyb 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                That’s the opposite direction the federal government has moved.

                                                                                                                                                                                You’re currently spewing nonsense.

                                                                                                                                                                                • glerk 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                  > we just need a law

                                                                                                                                                                                  Who is “we”? How would this “law” be compatible with the US constitution? How would this “law” be enforced? This must be the most naive take in this entire thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                  • menus 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                    Seems like a knee-jerk reaction. Why is the opinion always to ban or abolish a broken system instead of improving it?
                                                                                                                                                                                    • simple-thoughts 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                      Most cryptocurrencies are designed to survive exactly this situation. An attenpted USA ban on crypto has been expected from the very beginning, since blockchains transfer power from the elites like you to everyone else.
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 1-more 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                        how would you get the money back? Wouldn't that tank the price of everything? Not saying I'm categorically opposed to that but you'd essentially be confiscating the crypto since it'd be impossible to sell it for anything close to what you paid, right?
                                                                                                                                                                                        • RyanAdamas 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                          It would be a US law so they can get their money back in foreign currencies since its cryptographic and can be transferred to other exchanges internationally, and if they want dollars they can exchange it on the open market. Thankfully, that would increase the demand for dollars and continue to strengthen a currency weakened by a massive speculative market primed through international drug trafficking.
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 1-more 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                            I see I read exchanges not as "marketplaces" but as "transfers of crypto in exchange for money" like you were going to have the government forcibly compel everyone in the US holding crypto to sell it for a flat USD value and thusly divest themselves. So your idea would be that they can keep holding crypto or they can sell it for otherd-than-USD-fiat in non-US exchanges. Makes sense.
                                                                                                                                                                                        • Zpalmtree 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                          stop running code I don't like :(((
                                                                                                                                                                                          • RyanAdamas 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                            Stop exchanging code for dollars and pretending it provides any social or economic utility.
                                                                                                                                                                                            • 1-more 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                              This isn't outlandish. Many things are illegal to run on your computer.
                                                                                                                                                                                          • busterarm 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                            Not even a whole month since the last layoff...
                                                                                                                                                                                            • throwaway5959 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                              Contractors on the Death Star.
                                                                                                                                                                                              • black_13 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                [dead]
                                                                                                                                                                                                • thrwbin 1 year ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                  [flagged]