When Google Fiber abandons your city as a failed experiment (2019)
130 points by stl_fan 1 year ago | 118 comments- js2 1 year agoSummary: Google tried to "nano"-trench Louisville, KY using 2" deep trenches (by comparison micro-trenching is typically 6" deep) then use epoxy to cover the trench. The epoxy didn't stand up to tires. Google tried to replace the epoxy with asphalt but that damaged the fiber. Google determined at that point that nano-trenching wouldn't work and didn't want to spend additional money to remedy the situation, so they abandoned Louisville.
My story in NC:
Aug 2015: Google Fiber sent me a T-shirt promising Fiber would be available soon!
Jan 2017: AT&T Fiber available to my address. $70/month for 1 Gbps.
Aug 2023: Google Fiber finally available at my address. $70/mo for 1 Gbps, $100/mo for 2 Gbps.
So yeah, Google got AT&T to get off their butts, but it took Google 8 years to get to my address. Meanwhile, AT&T is still $70/mo, includes HBO (er, Max), and is reliable, so I don't really have any reason to switch.
That said, I'm considering having GF installed anyway as long as they're in the neighborhood and running dual-WAN for a while. I can always cancel it and then my home is setup for both ISPs.
- bruce511 1 year agoI'm not in the US, but in my country the fibre-provider and the ISP are unrelated companies. There are multiple fibre companies (typically an area is served by one or another of them although my area has two) and of course a couple dozen ISPs that do the ISP part.
This model works -really- well. ISPs compete on price, and service. Fibre folks do the physical stuff. Fibre companies are incentivised to get rolled out in an area first. ISPs can scale up without having to raise huge capital. And the roadside only gets dug up once (mostly the fibre is buried, although some makes use of existing pole infrastructure. )
It's one of those (rare?) cases where good regulation, and a free market collide, and the result us that everyone has fibre.
I say this not to gloat, but rather to show that it can be beneficial to separate access from service for best customer service.
[1] my first ISP went under. I switched to a new ISP within an hour after the cause of the outage was understood.
[2] a couple of outages have been ascribed to the fibre provider, the ISP escalates those for me, and have been rectified within the hour.
Who knew competition could lead to such good customer service...
- 1123581321 1 year agoThis model is called open access fiber in the US and is how fiber is currently being rapidly built in small and medium cities, and some rural areas. It’s a significant change from a few years ago. Usually the fiber operator signs a telco as an “anchor tenant” for the city for mutual financial stability and then one or more other ISPs compete. Typical offerings are between 300/300 and 8 gigs(!) with 1 and 2 gig priced reasonably.
Physically, they’re negotiating the dig with the appropriate government body and then doing it all at once. Cables are buried by roads. The ISPs connect the network to the individual homes when the home signs up. Large apartments and office buildings have the dig done in advance and are usually restricted to one ISP tenant that the network operator chooses to service those locations/accounts.
Both the fiber operators and the ISPs are raising money to expand faster, in addition to the public money available, because the capital risk of this model is low, as you said.
- sofixa 1 year agoSimilarly, but I think slightly better, in France anyone can run fibre to connect to homes, and they can have exclusivity over it for some time, but afterwards are forced to share it with competitors on fixed prices. Why I think it's better is that due to the limited exclusivity, and the fact that most people won't switch providers if prices are similar, you know you'll probably keep a decent chunk of the people who sign up during the exclusive period. Therefore you're incentivised to put in new fibre connecting more people.
- CogitoCogito 1 year agoYeah everywhere I’ve lived outside the US does something similar and it always works much better than in the US.
> It's one of those (rare?) cases where good regulation, and a free market collide, and the result us that everyone has fibre.
I’d argue that good (and certainly not nonexistent) regulation is a necessity of a well-functioning, efficient market.
- BLKNSLVR 1 year agoI'd guess from your description and alias that you're Australian.
Man it took some work to get the model up and running though didn't it? Great idea from one party, totally politically destroyed soon afterwards when the other party got into power, and then slowly, over the course of a decade and a half, has almost reached the original vision.
Inspired this book: https://www.amazon.com.au/Frustrated-State-terrible-deterrin...
- philjohn 1 year agoIt's the same in the UK for the most part.
OpenReach (which was "split off" from BT) puts the infrastructure in place, and OFCOM (our telecoms regulator) defines the price they can charge to ISP's for a connection - so you have a raft of ISP's who compete on price or service.
There are other infra providers though, Virgin Media (DOCSIS Cable) cover some of the country, CityFibre are doing a massive expansion (I now have all three available at my property), Hyperoptic (mostly focuses on apartments).
And then there's Hull ... which is a special case that never became amalgamated to BT back in the day and instead is served by Kingston Communications.
For the most part it works well, but heavy regulations is anethema to some over the US side of the pond and therefore YMMV.
- philjohn 1 year ago
- throwaway2037 1 year agoWhat country? It would helpful to know so we can dig into the details. I can assure you they don't separate themselves (soft+hard) out of the goodness of their hearts. Telco loves a monopoly where they can get it. I am sure it was wise regulations -- which the US lacks on this matter. Also, national broadband projects in NZ + AU + SE have been fairly successful. Basically, the gov't pays to build the network, then leases parts of it to ISP who compete.
- theblazehen 1 year agoI'm from South Africa, and we have the same kind of separation here
- theblazehen 1 year ago
- aednichols 1 year agoExcuse my ignorance, but at that point what does the ISP actually do other than send bills to customers and pay invoices for fiber plant and upstream bandwidth?
- watson 1 year agoThe ISP sets up rack-cabinets full of equipment in central buildings where the “last mile” fiber terminates, close to the neighborhoods that they service. Each ISP that provides service to the area needs to have their own equipment there. This is how they differentiate and how one ISP can do 1Gbps while another might be able to do 2Gbps. Simply because they have installed different equipment. The fiber itself can of course support much more
- butlerm 1 year agoIt is possible for telcos to provide point to point or point to multipoint layer 2 permanent virtual circuits (PVCs) from customers to providers or branch offices to home offices, and it used to be common. Frame relay and ATM (asynchronous transfer mode) were quite popular technologies for that.
In many if not most areas in the United States DSL (digital subscriber loop) based Internet access was originally delivered over PVCs established through a layer 2 ATM network. There were interesting problems with that so PPP or PPP over Ethernet is more common these days, even when the telco no longer really lets anyone compete with them in the provision of broadband Internet access services at layer 3 over the network they maintain thanks to a rather convenient federal court decision.
Layer 2 mostly Ethernet access over VLANs (virtual local area networks) to a chosen provider does live on in certain mostly municipally owned multi-provider networks though, and in some countries that is normal, although usually with the incumbent telco or ILEC (incumbent local exchange company) installing and maintaining the last mile to homes and businesses rather than a municipal operator as in some parts of the United States. Either way more than one provider can provide layer 3 Internet service on the same physical facilities that way, with layer 2 (e.g. switched Ethernet) virtual lans or virtual circuits operated by one company or municipality.
- bruce511 1 year agoBasically the ISP is doing the soft networking stuff, (DHCP etc), customer support (maning the phones), connecting routes, billing and so on. Think "software". The fibre guys are "hardware".
In my setup I don't think the ISP has any local hardware - they're all national, and run on the hardware provided by the fibre guys.
- monocasa 1 year agoPeer in the internet.
- watson 1 year ago
- js2 1 year agoThe U.S. sorta did this in the copper days: the local/incumbent phone company owned the copper from the home to the CO (central office) and then phone service could be handled by either the ILEC or CLEC. And you could dial-in to whatever ISP you wanted. This was intended to provide some amount of competition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_local_exchange_car...
https://www.bandwidth.com/glossary/competitive-local-exchang...
But once you could get voice & data from either the telco or the cable company, this all went out the window.
- happymellon 1 year agoWe sort of do this in the UK.
British Telecom own Open Reach who provide infrastructure for the country.
There is cable, for a second option in cities, and there are some regional fibre networks that provide a second infrastructure option, but for the most part Open Reach is the only option.
I had massive issues with my line, I had engineers come out and we were able to test the cables and show that there was a fault between my house and the exchange. I don't have a relationship with Open Reach so I had to rely on my ISP opening tickets and it disappearing into a black hole.
After 6 months of basically not being able to use it I had to switch to BT and magically I was able to get an engineer come out and it's all good.
Fuck BT, and the conflict of interest system where the infrastructure is managed by someone who also provides the service.
Luckily an Alt Network is laying fibre outside and should hopefully be able to supply service in the next 6 months and I'll be dropping BT infrastructure as soon as possible.
I don't care whether the system is multiple infrastructure options, or one infrastructure and multiple services over the top but in that case my infrastructure provider should be separate from my service provider.
- toast0 1 year ago> But once you could get voice & data from either the telco or the cable company, this all went out the window.
Line sharing in the US extended to DSL served from COs, but faster DSL came from remote terminals that were closer to users and didn't have space for CLEC equipment.
Under the US Telecominications Act of 1996, the FCC likely could have mandated more line sharing arrangements for cable and DSL from remote terminals, which isn't the same as fully separating wiring from service, but gets some things good enough so people have at least a chance at having an option for getting better routing or getting a static IP or ...
- happymellon 1 year ago
- gentleman11 1 year ago> It's one of those (rare?) cases where good regulation, and a free market collide
Free markets can’t exist without regulation. Otherwise, literal warlords take over, and if not that, monopolies and oligopolies and anticompetitive behaviour and externalities
- overstay8930 1 year agoI was a network engineer at a large Tier 1 ISP, and let me tell you it is not all that great.
Europe as a whole has a fuck ton of congestion and reliability problems because ISPs don't want to build out fiber and these fiber companies are very slow to roll out and increase capacity, because they don't have an incentive to be fast or build fiber to the same places multiple times like in the US. If anyone remembers the Hetzner-DTAG fiasco you'll know what congestion I'm talking about where unless you are directly peering with someone on an internet exchange you can forget about having a good experience.
In Europe outside of the incumbent carriers, most ISPs build a local network and just peer at an exchange while buying the crappiest and slowest IP transit link they can get, meaning most Europeans reading this could just run a speed test to a network not directly connected to your ISP and see how bad their network speeds really are to most of the internet (you also probably don't have IPv6 either). Big ISPs also have zero incentive to peer with anyone because all of those small ISPs can usually only buy Transit from them (transport is out of the question for most small ISPs in most of the continent), unlike in the US where even Comcast has to appease their customers somewhat as there's a lot of competition these days from TMO and VZ.
In the US ISPs build their own transit and transport networks, meaning large ISPs have an incentive to build fast and reliable networks with lots of capacity and redundancy so they can sell access to said networks. This doesn't happen in places like Europe where there might be a single transport network for an entire geographic area. It also means that unless you are as big as Netflix, you can pretty much assume everyone in the lower 48 will have a good experience connecting to your server since congestion is only a hyper-local thing out here, but in Europe congestion is such a big problem the EU had to step in and ask American tech companies to voluntarily lower bandwidth usage so they could keep up.
That's also why you see so much shit from those same telecoms who cry about having to upgrade their network because of said big tech companies, when in reality it was those same telecoms who sat on their asses not building fiber and not upgrading capacity.
When the pandemic hit and ISPs realized they were resting on their laurels, a lot of fiber building companies were unable to handle the request for more capacity because every other ISP in Europe is asking for the same thing, and most ISPs can't build their own fiber as they never invested in their own equipment and training as, again, the government gave that job to someone else.
- 1123581321 1 year ago
- stephenr 1 year agoI thought you must surely have meant `2'` vs `6'` (i.e. feet) and simply used the wrong symbol.
I don't really understand how a 2" deep nano trench is meant to last any serious amount of time (compared to a regular conduit fully buried under the road), given how asphalt roads (particularly in a city where there is a fixed-height curb, and resurfacing works will regularly be ripping up a layer of the asphalt to be replaced.
- WorldMaker 1 year agoIt fails basic civil engineering on so many levels. Imagine doing that in a city with an active frost line well below 2". How many pothole-related outages would you expect to obviously experience if you were to try such an experiment?
- throwaway2037 1 year agoIs cold weather bad for fiber? I'm confused by this post.
This is classic HN armchair engineering. I'm sure Google didn't put any thought into their physical rollout.It fails basic civil engineering on so many levels.
- throwaway2037 1 year ago
- kalleboo 1 year agoSupposedly while resurfacing, you're supposed to be able to just take the fiber out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvzGqA2b0aw
- 1 year ago
- cozzyd 1 year agoWhy don't they fix the choreography, so the dwarves no longer tread on it?
- WorldMaker 1 year ago
- jeremyw 1 year agoIf you run home servers and like having complete control, I recommend staying away from AT&T Fiber. They play lots of network games (port remapping/takeover, routing issues, no limits but limits!).
Google Fiber, on the other hand, has been clean and clear.
- kayyyy 1 year agoThat's quite a shame, our area recently got AT&T fiber and I was excited to move off Comcast with the maximum of 35mbps up I get.
- js2 1 year agoI haven't had any trouble with AT&T fiber. My bandwidth has never been capped. I don't run public servers from my home, but I do have family who stream from a Plex server and it's never been an issue.
I bypass the AT&T router: https://github.com/jaysoffian/eap_proxy
(I'm a crazy person so I also relocated their ONT to inside my home to keep it out of the summer temperatures.)
- js2 1 year ago
- kayyyy 1 year ago
- bradknowles 1 year agoI also got the t-shirt from Google, when they announced they were coming to Austin. I don't remember which year that was. Google did come to a couple of neighborhoods, but that's it.
And while that spurred the AT&T fiber sales critters to come out of the woodwork, that didn't inspire much in the way of actual fiber investment from AT&T.
The sales critters came to our neighborhood several times, but ultimately stopped. I think I may have had some influence there, because I kept asking them if they could actually deliver fiber to our house, and they kept failing to be able to answer the question. I kept showing them the AT&T website on my iPad and to show me where they could actually provide service, and they just walked away.
Still no AT&T fiber here.
But Spectrum was happy to walk around the neighborhood recently, offering their same sub-1Gbps cable modem service that they've had for years and years.
Sadly, when Time Warner Cable was here, they could do symmetric 1Gbps connections, at least if you signed up for business class service. Not so much with Spectrum. They can give you 1Gbps down, but nowhere near that for upstream -- not even with business class.
Sigh....
- yeukhon 1 year agoFwiw, TW was acquired by Spectrum several years ago. The acquisition did not help customers. I am in a lucky boat. Verizon took many years to break ground in many neighborhoods in NYC and neaby counties, after fought monopolies (which they are themselves ironically). But generally only Verizon is the reliable one here
- bradknowles 1 year agoHuh. I didn't realize Spectrum bought TW. I thought TW had exited the market and Spectrum was awarded a new monopoly contract.
Sigh....
They bought out TW and then proceeded to make the service even worse.
- bradknowles 1 year ago
- yeukhon 1 year ago
- johnbatch 1 year agoI’m also in Raleigh. I remember
Aug 2015: Free T-shirt
May 2017: ATT dug up my yard (Everyone was hopping it was google)
Nov 2017: ATT fiber Installed (At least it’s not spectrum cable anymore)
Dec 2021: Google Fiber dug up my yard.
May 2022: Google Fiber installed.
It’s a shame they re-trenched everything 4 years after ATT did.
- ivolimmen 1 year agoDug up your yard??? I am getting fiber in 2 months and they are going under my garden by injecting it with high pressure so that it "lands" in my service hatch under my house. Appointment after that someone will enter my house and connect it...
- ramenbytes 1 year agoTo clarify, do you mean that they just shove the fiber down an underground electrical conduit hard enough for it to make it to your house?
- ramenbytes 1 year ago
- ivolimmen 1 year ago
- Uptrenda 1 year agoThis sounds like a plan cooked up by a shonky tradesman 'its ok, well use epoxy to patch her up. she'll be right, m8' (sound of house falling down.mp3)
- prirun 1 year ago> So yeah, Google got AT&T to get off their butts, but it took Google 8 years to get to my address. Meanwhile, AT&T is still $70/mo, includes HBO (er, Max), and is reliable, so I don't really have any reason to switch.
I'm guessing Google's presence is also what keeps your AT&T bill at $70/mo.
- js2 1 year agoWell, the threat of it at the time did anyway. I don't think they still offer the same deal for new signups. I keep thinking I've slipped through some crack in their billing system.
- js2 1 year ago
- Dig1t 1 year agoExact same experience in Austin, the quality of internet providers is so much better. There are multiple options for gigabit and none of them have data caps. When living in the Bay we only had one option and it had a data cap that we regularly hit; living in a house with 5 tech people will do that. In Austin there are no data caps, much better service, and a more consistent price. It's amazing what a little competition did.
- fulafel 1 year ago8 years worth of comms tech progress should of course make 1 Gbps much cheaper if the competition worked (since the same fiber works for higher speeds).
- MichaelRo 1 year ago>> $70/month for 1 Gbps.
I'm paying $7 / month for 0.5 Gbps. I'd say it's worth the tradeoff.
- throwaway2037 1 year agoThat is stunning it is so cheap. Same city? If not, where and how? I don't know how any ISP could make money.
- MichaelRo 1 year ago
- MichaelRo 1 year ago
- throwaway2037 1 year ago
- cowmix 1 year agoThis is the SAME situation here in PHX. Google made Cox / Centurylink get off their collective arses.
- bruce511 1 year ago
- ProllyInfamous 1 year agoI had Google Fiber installed in my crapbox Barton Hills duplex (Austin, Texas)... I want to say 2015? It was cool, a then-neat-gimmick that I had to wait years for installation.
I now have Chattanooga's public utility fiber, provided by the local electricity provider (EPBfiber, part of the electric fiber board) to EVERY SINGLE ADDRESS SERVICED BY THE POWER COMPANY.
The latter scenario is SO MUCH BETTER that the state of Tennessee effectively has banned [still cat-and-mouse] other cities from implementing Chattanooga's beloved solution to broadband infrastructure AS A RIGHT. I do not even know why Comcast/AT&T/etc. even send out advertisements when nobody in their right mind would choose anything other than the city-provided publicly-subsidized internet.
<3 from Not Your Electrician
- anigbrowl 1 year agothe state of Tennessee effectively has banned [still cat-and-mouse] other cities from implementing Chattanooga's beloved solution
It's bleakly hilarious that politicians of a certain stripe fall over themselves to pass laws against policies that deliver value to the public.
- kortilla 1 year agoFree market proponents don’t want the government competing with industry. It’s not that surprising
- sofixa 1 year agoIf the government can provide a better and cheaper service, what exactly is the problem? The free market will decide if the government's competition makes sense.
- sofixa 1 year ago
- google234123 1 year agoCan I make a health insurance company that only insures healthy people?
- naijaboiler 1 year agoIsn’t that what we essentially have? Private insurance only covers healthy people, adults healthy enough to work. The rest is punted to Medicare (old and sick) or Medicaid (poor, jiblessand young that are too sick)
- cjrp 1 year agoExcluding pre-existing conditions sort of does that.
- deelly 1 year agoCan you make a health company that insures not only healthy people is a real question.
- anigbrowl 1 year agoNot relevant
- naijaboiler 1 year ago
- kortilla 1 year ago
- wddkcs 1 year agoI was on the board of a similar municipal effort in the mid-west. Comcast sent in 3rd party consultants to scare residents and mis-represent every aspect of the effort. Thankfully the public vote for the infrastructure passed anyway.
- anigbrowl 1 year ago
- kyrra 1 year agoRelated article from the time: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/04/googl...
Google paid the city $3.8M to the city, for the city to clean up the mess themselves.
- WorldMaker 1 year agoThat hush money didn't cover how much the tax payers wound up paying for the whole mess. Keep in mind, too, that was also after the city spent a lot of money prosecuting a One Touch Make Ready law through multiple layers of federal courts against AT&T and Spectrum and its own electrical company. (That was supposed to have been the real experiment, if a city could take back a lot of the red tape on its electrical poles. The city won and instead of using just about "blank check" access to city electrical poles, Google Fiber decided to do something much dumber.)
- WorldMaker 1 year ago
- hipadev23 1 year agoI'm utterly shocked that once again Google half-assed a product and then completely abandoned it.
- 1letterunixname 1 year agoAnother one: Mountain View's Google Public WiFi was never usable by anyone for anything.
- lstamour 1 year agoIn their defense, I don’t actually know of any municipal-scale outdoor wifi project that was a success, though I’d love to hear about it.
- paradox460 1 year agoLayton, UT has a fairly widespread public wifi system, called Layton Lightspeed. It's pretty speedy, for a muni wifi.
https://www.deseret.com/2014/5/20/20541836/wi-fi-available-a...
- AlexAndScripts 1 year agoBrisbane seems to be decent.
- paradox460 1 year ago
- lstamour 1 year ago
- 1letterunixname 1 year ago
- 1letterunixname 1 year agoSummary: Google isn't really a business, it's a confederation of dilettante, temporary experiments only interested in the paths of least resistance.
I'm curious if anyone knows why there is a GF dead zone in Austin downtown except for the Google offices and a few other buildings. It's bounded by N Lamar to the west, W 30th to the north, I-35 to the east, and the Colorado to the south. Taxes? Permit $? Laziness?
2 Gbps GF ATX customer here. It takes under a week to activate. They have 5 Gbps now but I don't see the point. $70 1 G, $100 2 G, and $125 5 G.
If GF goes under, there's always Spectrum who sends me 5 junkmail ads a week for their overpriced offering.
- SilverBirch 1 year agoThis is always quite an interesting dynamic in local government. It's the nature of the US that there's always going to be some mid sized city run by idiots and big corporations can just shop around to see who they can take advantage of. If you strip away the brand name this is just a city agreeing to install an incredibly sub-standard local utility. But it's cheaper! Yes, because it's bad! All the other people digging deep trenches aren't idiots, they're building out the infrastructure to a spec where it will actually be maintainable.
- Uptrenda 1 year agoIt's okay guys, Google is only a small startup so you can't really fault them for not having the money to fix things.
- walrus01 1 year agoAnyone who knows outside plant fiber could have told you this was a recipe for disaster. The only way to "micro trench" fiber that will last is using a big-ass diamond bladed wet saw, like 10 to 12 inches down and then fill the slot with proper concrete/pavement grouting. NOT two inches down and filled with black rubber stuff.
Vancouver BC has an extensive microtrenched fiber network in the busy downtown core, crossing many roads, and it's relatively trouble free.
- 1letterunixname 1 year agoIt's exactly how a know-nothing MBA would create a broadband network.
I've seen proper trenching with a 30" diamond saw the last bit from a telephone pole to a commercial building. The fiber ran as far as it could using public right-of-way to save installation labor costs.
- 1letterunixname 1 year ago
- 1 year ago
- ivolimmen 1 year agoWhy would you not put the cable under the ground? I understand that this is more cost effective.. in the SHORT RUN. Currently (I am Dutch) Odido (former T-Mobile) is planning to ship fiber in my town (23.000 people) where it will take 2 to 3 month before it is at my door. Every cable goes under the ground. I even know that in the Netherlands the ones that dig cables have an app that tells them what they can find under the ground at what level and what type. They are also required to tell where they are laying the cable, how deep and what type of cable it is. We might have a lot of weird rules but this for sure it better than this...
- daanluttik 1 year agoWait, there are still places here in the Netherlands without gigabit fiber... Or are you just very brand-loyal to tmobile?
- ivolimmen 1 year agoPlenty places to not have fiber. I am using Ziggo (cable) with 600Mbit down and 60Mbit up. It's sufficient but since they have a monopoly they can set the price however they want. I can lower my cost by switching over to Odido with 1Gbit fiber (up and down) for €30 less a month...
- ivolimmen 1 year ago
- daanluttik 1 year ago
- stephenr 1 year agoGiven their penchant for abandoning things on a whim, I never really understood why people would ever choose to use a service like this, from Google.
- amf12 1 year agoBecause it got other providers to get off their butts. Besides, it's relatively easy to switch providers anyway (where available).
I don't understand why people are scared of using services that have relatively low switching barriers, because they may be shut down one day.
I've used so many services over the years - big tech and from start ups that I've since moved form because they closed down or remained stagnant over better alternatives, and I never had to give it a second thought.
- stephenr 1 year ago> I don't understand why people are scared of using services that have relatively low switching barriers, because they may be shut down one day.
This suggests there's alternative services available anyway, so why take the risk on Google at all?
- hn_throwaway_99 1 year agoWhat exactly do you think is the "risk" of going with Google in these situations as a consumer?
I know people who have Google Fiber, and love it - super fast Internet at reasonable prices. If it got turned off, they would just go with someone else. What exactly do you think the downside is? As a municipality, sure, as the article explains. But as an end consumer, what's the problem?
- amf12 1 year ago> This suggests there's alternative services available anyway, so why take the risk on Google at all?
Isn't that for people to decide for themselves? Few reasons I can think of: preference, trust, integrations, better features, don't want to support Comcast, etc.
- hn_throwaway_99 1 year ago
- stephenr 1 year ago
- Dylan16807 1 year agoI can get new internet service easily enough, and it'll come with a sign-up bonus.
So if one service has significant advantages, I'll switch. Even if it might not last a long time.
- asylteltine 1 year agoGoogle fiber is just another thing in the Google graveyard. I’ve switched away from almost every Google product with maps and gmail being the last holdouts. I mostly use Apple Maps but there’s nothing as convenient as gmail and workspaces. If Apple offered email again I would switch to it for sure.
- shiroiuma 1 year agoGoogle Calendar and Photos work well IME. Also, GoogleTV (Android TV) is great, since you can side-load apps like SmartTubeNext. Same goes for Android phones, where Firefox Nightly plus uBO (plus another extension to allow turning off the screen) let me listen to YouTube at work without any ad interruptions.
Apple stuff is useless because it only works on Apple devices, and doesn't let me share with friends who don't have Apple devices, and generally isn't friendly to ad-blocking.
- asylteltine 1 year ago> Apple stuff is useless because it only works on Apple devices
This logic doesn’t make sense. I only have Apple devices and it’s quite awesome. Android is buggy as hell and not integrated at all. My Apple devices are completely integrated with the entire Apple ecosystem. Spoken as an android fanboy from the G1 until the pixel 3xl.
- asylteltine 1 year ago
- shiroiuma 1 year ago
- grogenaut 1 year agoThey weren't as known for abandoning everything back in 2015
- hinkley 1 year agoWell known for sure. Notorious is debatable.
- asylteltine 1 year agoYeah they were
- hinkley 1 year ago
- amf12 1 year ago
- aurelien 1 year agoAnd so the man who does not make works is brain lost his place?
“It is such a shame to think that we wouldn’t be having any of this conversation if they would have dug their little holes two inches deeper,” Coan said.
Alphabet the Clown compagny!
- bitcharmer 1 year agoGoogle abandoning their service and its users? This can't be!
- ChrisArchitect 1 year ago
- classified 1 year agoAll of Google is a failed experiment. It's only a question of time.