How the Feds bounced Binance
83 points by haskellandchill 1 year ago | 103 comments- dale_glass 1 year ago> But the blockchain’s entire purpose is political. If crypto is no longer about teh magic of decentralization, then why would anyone want to use it?
Making big $$$, obviously.
It's very clear that the whole decentralization tech angle failed a long time ago. I had a passing interest, but completely lost it around 2017-ish, when BTC blocks started filling up.
It seemed completely clear to me that a "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" couldn't tolerate such dysfunction. Usage as cash wasn't working. In the end capacity had to be promptly increased, or obviously there'd be huge problems for everyone.
The first nail in the coffin was that blocks weren't expanded. The second one was that while there were plenty alternatives, BTC retained dominance, and that even forks that theoretically were superior because they did what they were supposed to do far better, BTC still won out.
So clearly I was wrong, BTC wasn't functioning as a "cash system", and this obviously didn't matter to the BTC users, and didn't matter to the world at large either.
Thus eventually it dawned on me that there were maybe a few people out there that had some interest in a "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" and the "tech", but the vast majority out there were only interested in a world-wide game of hot potato, where the only point is to accumulate coins early, then sell them to some fool on the top, and cash out.
- apantel 1 year agoThere’s an important point hidden in your comment: Bitcoin won despite better forks and alternatives, and all its issues, because it managed to achieve the main thing that is required for something to become money: enough people have to think it’s money. When enough people come to think of something as money, it becomes money.
If a fork or alternative to Bitcoin doesn’t get enough people to think of it as money, then it doesn’t really matter if it is ‘superior’. It won’t win against the thing that a very large number of people think is money.
Edit: punctuation.
- ethanbond 1 year agoBetter explanation: people didn’t care about how shitty of a currency it was because they loved how good of a speculative instrument it was.
A good speculative instrument is also definitionally a bad currency, even aside from the technical “barriers” BTC faces.
- heresie-dabord 1 year agoYours is the important hidden point in the direct parent comment:
As an instrument of enthusiastic speculation with rapid gains and fungibility, cryptocurrency became concentrated holdings of wealthy and unscrupulous speculators.
Oh, and of some governments.
- heresie-dabord 1 year ago
- wolverine876 1 year ago> it managed to achieve the main thing that is required for something to become money: enough people have to think it’s money. When enough people come to think of something as money, it becomes money.
Perhaps they thought it was an asset that others would pay money for, like a pyramid scheme. They were buying shares of Bitcoin, essentially. People were buying financial instruments linked to worthless real estate in the 2000s; they thought they were (sufficiently liquid) assets, not money.
What evidence do we have that people thought Bitcoin was currency and not an investment instrument? I know there's some Bitcoin-as-cash going on, but how much, and how much today?
- apantel 1 year agoBitcoin made a unique imprint in the collective consciousness by painting a believable picture of a world where a decentralized currency is viable. It wasn’t just a white paper. It was a working protocol and an actual network. Think about what it was like to become aware of that and participate in it as an early adopter — to go from not being able to conceive of how such a system could work to participating in an actual working system. It was (and still is) a working peer-to-peer monetary transaction system. If you have Bitcoin, you have units of account in that monetary system. Whether the system is slow or not, it’s money.
I don’t think Bitcoin will be a cash-type unit of account. It’s like gold: it is divisible and fungible, but a pain to actually use as cash. Hundreds of years ago gold became a store of value used to back paper currencies.
Bitcoin has value in that owning Bitcoin means owning a unit of account in a tamper-proof, global, decentralized ledger. To the extent many many people think that the Bitcoin ledger is worth holding units in (and not a fork or alternative), the units of the ledger become valuable.
When people treat Bitcoin as a speculative investment, what they’re really doing is expecting even more people in the future to consider Bitcoin THE ledger to want to own units in, which would make the units in the ledger even more valuable. But the type of value they’re expecting to see more of is already there: a huge number of people think the Bitcoin ledger is the ledger to own units in, and comparatively very few care about owning units in the forks or alternatives.
- a_gnostic 1 year agoThere is a bitcoin that is useable (and used) as a currency, which has maintained value, and fast transaction speeds. But maximalists don't want to read of it…
- apantel 1 year ago
- bhaak 1 year agoPeople think of it as money but mostly as unusable money.
Even Bitcoin proponents now longer propose "using Bitcoin" but "holding Bitcoin" and cashing out to fiat if they have to use money.
- apantel 1 year agoMy philosophy on holding Bitcoin is: hold it until cryptocurrency has matured to the point where you are no longer interested in converting back into government-issued money. Once cryptocurrency has the type of optionality that government-issued money has, the “speculative investment” phase will be over and you’ll just have… money.
- apantel 1 year ago
- dale_glass 1 year ago> If a fork or alternative to Bitcoin doesn’t get enough people to think of it as money, then it doesn’t really matter if it is ‘superior’. It won’t win against the thing that a very large number of people think is money.
And that's a huge problem, because the whole point of Bitcoin was decentralization and lack of need to trust anyone. And yet it seems the winner is simply whoever plays the PR game best and has the most inertia.
- knowsuchagency 1 year agoI see what you’re saying about social contract, but by that logic any speculative investment vehicle becomes money.
- apantel 1 year agoThat’s not right. Not every speculative investment vehicle can function as money. To function as money something has to be divisible (e.g. cut a dollar into cents, cut a kg of gold into grams, cut a Bitcoin into bits), it has to be fungible (any unit of it is the same as all other units, i.e. a dollar is a dollar), it has to be portable (you can put a gold coin in your pocket), it has to be easily-transferable, it has to walk the razor’s edge between plentiful and scarce, etc.
The other big one is wide acceptance, meaning many different people being willing to accept it as payment for goods and services. You can argue that Bitcoin has achieved this as well, though maybe not as much as one might wish or dream.
Bitcoin was designed to be money, so it has the properties of money. That’s not true of pretty much any other type of speculative investment.
Edit: added more to first paragraph.
- apantel 1 year ago
- worik 1 year ago> When enough people come to think of something as money, it becomes money
There are many more requirements than that for an artefact to become money
Bitcoin misses out on most
- apantel 1 year agoNot really. It is possessible (you possess the key that enables transfer), fungible, divisible, scarce, easily transferred. It has all of the basic qualities of money.
- apantel 1 year ago
- wmf 1 year agoBitcoin is more like gold. There are multiple precious metals and many cryptocurrencies but only one "main" one.
- wizzwizz4 1 year ago> There are multiple precious metals […] but only one "main" one.
Yeah: silver.
- wizzwizz4 1 year ago
- ethanbond 1 year ago
- px43 1 year ago> I had a passing interest, but completely lost it around 2017-ish, when BTC blocks started filling up.
Yes, this was the last straw for a ton of people actually interested in developing the technology, and it's when a lot of people moved their primary focus to Ethereum.
In 2017, the Bitcoin developer community did a hard pivot away from "electronic cash" and towards this "store of value" obsession, where Bitcoin is meant to replace gold. This was an incredibly noisy and disruptive pivot that tore the community in half. These were the "Blocksize Wars", and I could rant for hours about them, but obviously not here.
The thing is, Bitcoin up until that point was functioning very well as cash. Starting in 2013 I was regularly using it to buy coffee from coffee shops, and pay my bill at restaurants, and with literally a one line change it could have kept enabling the cash use case easily for another decade, and with maybe a 20 line change proposed by Jeff Garzik in 2015, it could have easily scaled forever.
The focus on serving the financial industry over everyday users was a very deliberate one. It wasn't a bad move, tactically, just very disappointing.
- treyd 1 year ago> and with literally a one line change
Except we know as software engineers that solutions to problems at scale are never that simple. The "just increase the block size limit bro" solution doesn't consider the externalities that increasing it would have on the network performance and decentralization. This is the same line of reasoning about this whole thread, compromising decentralization compromises the ability to use a credibly peer-to-peer (cash) system.
- zik 1 year agoThat change was made in many other cryptocurrencies and they did scale just fine. At the time there were a lot of claims that it couldn't be made to work, but history shows that it did work just fine. The bitcoin developers really monumentally screwed up and made a horrible decision (because they wanted to push their own alternative).
- JCharante 1 year agoChanging from 1 MB every ten minutes to 8 MB every ten minutes is nothing
- OsrsNeedsf2P 1 year ago> doesn't consider the externalities that increasing it would have on the network performance and decentralization.
I ran a Bitcoin node on and off for 7 years. I remember the day it cost more to bootstrap an entire node than make a transaction. Your argument about "developing countries" and "internet costs" in other comments is completely disingenuous for this reason alone.
Bitcoin's runway was cut incredibly short by not raising the blocksize. The excitement around decentralization died because it was strangled.
> "We know as software engineers that solutions to problems at scale are never that simple"
Yes, L2s are needed - But it's insane to suggest 10x-ing the throughput at the bottleneck for a rounding error cost is a bad idea.
- zik 1 year ago
- crotchfire 1 year agoA lot of the "pivot away from ... cash ... towards store of value" was legislated into place by AML/KYC idiocy. And IRS policies.
If you're referring to the blocksize wars, you aren't looking at a long enough time horizon. No system can afford to keep settlement records of every transaction processed by VISA/Mastercard for the rest of eternity. In order for bitcoin to finish displacing existing payment systems some sort of off-chain settlement is unavoidable.
Refusing to increase the blocksize forced people to start working on this instead of just kicking the can yet again. And hey, guess what, five years later I can use Lightning to upvote posts on https://stacker.news (without even waiting for the next block to be mined!).
- nullc 1 year agoYou're repeating a false narrative which was commercially financed in order to promote alternatives (ironically). Bitcoin absolutely is electronic cash.
We've seen the alternative play out in forks that have become completely centralized as a result of ignoring the tradeoffs with the technology in use, and as a result have been undermined with "functionality" like confiscation transactions (transactions that let miners take any coins they choose).
What bitcoin isn't is a paypal clone. That already exists and it's not of substantial value to the world to add another centralized high volume payments rail. It's absolutely fine that people also want to use it that way, but optimizing for that case can't come at the expense of the security properties that make Bitcoin interesting in the first place. Alternatives that make different tradeoffs do exist, and I think the results speak for themselves.
- treyd 1 year ago
- arealaccount 1 year agoIf bitcoin does not succeed as a currency but does as a store of wealth, then eventually all of the coins will flow into a few funds and large wallets, right?
So once all the coins are mined and if there are not many p2p transactions occurring, then what incentive is there to mine and support the network?
Will coin owners just mine their own private blocks whenever they need to move coin?
Curious if this has already been considered by the bulls or bears. Seems like bitcoin will need to increase the upper limit of coins to continue to work.
- jayd16 1 year agoOnce the automatic coins are mined, the idea is you pay miners a tip to get your transactions completed.
I'm more curious how they plan to handle a drop in popularity from a security standpoint. Will the total compute always need to remain high enough to keep a bad actor from dominating? As popularity wanes that sounds expensive.
- arealaccount 1 year agoThat’s exactly what I’m wondering, if all the bitcoin is held as investment and not utilized as a currency, then there is no incentive to receive tips, so no incentive to crunch hashes, so how does it work then?
- treyd 1 year agoTo maintain the current level of security then, all else being equal, the total fees collected will have to increase by the amount the subsidy decreases by. So each byte of block space will cost more for the person buying it. That could be an issue, but the solution to that problem is to extend the protocol to allow for more sophisticated "layer 2" systems so that the end-user experience has as small of a footprint as possible.
Ideally without compromising security, which can be done with zero-knowledge proofs and such. But it's unclear if the political will is there from the community around the Bitcoin project.
- arealaccount 1 year ago
- cduzz 1 year agoWhen you refer to bitcoin as a "store of wealth" do you mean that a bitcoin will retain its value over time? Which bitcoin do you mean, some coin you recently minted or one that's from a hacked exchange and hard to cash in because it's tied to a known crime?
Is this a bitcoin you have in a cold wallet somewhere? Are you running a connected node with the intention of exchanging your bitcoins with someone else? Or is your "bitcoin" just an entry in an exchange's ledger somewhere, in that case is it a bitcoin or just faith in that exchange?
Is a bitcoin a store of value in the same way a bag of uncut diamonds is a store of value?
- jayd16 1 year ago
- colechristensen 1 year ago> It's very clear that the whole decentralization tech angle failed a long time ago. I had a passing interest, but completely lost it around 2017-ish, when BTC blocks started filling up.
Decentralization was the original tech angle. Email, HTTP, the basic Internet infrastructure is all decentralized with only the minimal necessary coordination. Decentralized money is iffy when it isn't a real thing with intrinsic value like a metal coin or trading commodities directly.
Everything else though can absolutely be decentralized, somebody just needs to be happy about writing open standards and giving people the means to have systems that use them.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 1 year ago"Thus eventually it dawned on me that there were maybe a few people out there that had some interest in a "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" and the "tech", but the vast majority out there were only interested in a world-wide game of hot potato, where the only point is to accumulate coins early, then sell them to some fool on the top, and cash out."
In this scenario, when do people cash out.
It seems like if people starting cashing out in large numbers, some folks are going to end up losing money.^1
1. Assuming they spent any money to acquire their Bitcoin.
- dale_glass 1 year agoPrecisely. Some people will make lots of money, some will make small gains, huge amounts will be screwed.
- dale_glass 1 year ago
- figassis 1 year agoPeople liken stability. If you have a lot invested in a currency and then, due to some shortcoming, it is forked to another currency, you have to migrate your life over. Your wallet, your investments are now in bitcoin cash. Once might not be an issue, but this can easily happen every month for every perceived shortcoming. If the forks inherited the BTC name, clients needed no changes and the original were renamed, I think things would be different now. Basically, merge improvements to main.
- kylebenzle 1 year agoYou can't be serious, Bitcoin Cash has been around for 10 years and is working great just like Satoshi design.
- dale_glass 1 year agoYeah, except for that obviously nobody cares for it:
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin%20cash-transact...
BCH has plenty spare capacity, but the actual usage shows it's not taking off. The idea of buying coffee with crypto is dead.
- dale_glass 1 year ago
- apantel 1 year ago
- jfengel 1 year agoBinance will not only help the US government monitor the money flows (the argument of our book), but plausibly act act as a regulatory super-spreader, transmitting “know your customer rules” across the ecoystem like an epidemiological contagion (the argument of an important academic article on ‘viral governance’ by Gregoire Mallard and Jin Sun).
Or, people will flood out to someone who hasn't been hit by that "contagion", because the entire point is to have unregulated money.
- dsugarman 1 year agoI don't really understand how any crypto is "unregulated money" and it's intrinsically the most tracable money store
[Edited for some horrible mobile autocorrect attrocities]
- kzrdude 1 year agoThere are fully anonymous transactions in some of the cryptocurrencies, like in Zcash I believe. I thought such innovations would overtake and make the original bitcoin obsolete, but I've been very wrong, because bitcoin is still popular.
- I_Am_Nous 1 year agoI think this fact points out the disparity between people using crypto for ideological reasons and them using it for investment reasons. Most people don't care about the whitepaper, just that "stonks only go up" and buy accordingly. So small, good projects aren't as reliable an investment vehicle as a larger, more established coin that is almost guaranteed to be sellable if needed.
- vlovich123 1 year agoI’m not aware yet that any cryptocurrency has been proven fully impossible to deanonymize, especially if there’s any off ramps anywhere.
For example: https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf is for zcash and monero
It’s possible that someone comes up with a robust mechanism but if you interact with any other coin (crypto or fiat) it can expose additional side channels that are impossible to close.
- anonfromsomewhe 1 year agoZcash is flawed lie. They are not fully anonymous or anything. There were several reports how to trace them.
- I_Am_Nous 1 year ago
- csomar 1 year agoIt is. But you need to connect these addresses to people and events. That might be feasible if you are the USA and can pressure poeple/companies. But most other countries/jurisdiction don’t even have the technical capacity to do such a thing.
- jMyles 1 year agoObviously there are different points of view on this point, but I view transparency and regularity as orthogonal features.
Crypto is easy to make both transparent and regular.
- block_dagger 1 year agoTraceable via otherwise anonymous addresses. It’s the de-anonymization that’s hard.
- JumpCrisscross 1 year ago> the de-anonymization that’s hard
In the few cases I’ve seen someone expend effort on it, it was trivial. Most people have terrible opsec. Even if you do, if you transact with someone who doesn’t (or who will deanonymise you for shockingly-trivial compensation), you’re partly compromised.
- JumpCrisscross 1 year ago
- kzrdude 1 year ago
- mjr00 1 year ago> because the entire point is to have unregulated money.
For some vanishingly small percentage of crypto-faithful, maybe. For the vast majority, the point is to turn (regulated) fiat money into more (regulated) fiat money. Or lose it all trying.
- jfengel 1 year agoIn order to make profit they need a draw. Subverting regulations is one of the few draws. So where the drug dealers go, the speculators will follow.
- jfengel 1 year ago
- wslh 1 year ago> the argument of an important academic article on ‘viral governance’ by Gregoire Mallard and Jin Sun
Great reference, I found it at: https://ens-paris-saclay.fr/sites/default/files/Laboratoires...
Reading it right now.
- toomuchtodo 1 year agoChainalysis monitors all public chains for law enforcement and regulators. Monero, Zcash, and other privacy focused crypto can be squeezed out under money laundering, KYC, AML laws and regulations. Interestingly, violations of law have a permanent record on an immutable blockchain. You simply need someone technical to perform data analysis and hand it over to enforcement.
TLDR there is always a throat to choke in meatspace.
- 1 year ago
- vlovich123 1 year agoDon’t even need to be squeezed out. Here’s an attack on zcash: https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf
Most private crypto coins are private by declaration rather than robust mathematical proofs (often because proving the absence of side channels is very difficult)
- 1 year ago
- dsugarman 1 year ago
- csomar 1 year agoThe article keeps confusing the blockchain tech (ie: bitcoin) with the centralized exchange business (ie: binance). In 2017-2018, crypto grew so fast that the tech couldn’t catch up. The centralized exchanges indeed won.
However, a significant volume is being traded today on DEXs (ie: uniswap). The OP fails to mention that. Uniswap did around $1bn in volume on a Saturday. These amount are very hard to fake as uniswap fees are simply brutal comparing to CEXs. This means a part of the market has moved off-grid and it’s significant. I don’t think the article argument can ignore that fact.
- from 1 year agoExcept Binance didn't make out too bad in the end anyways. CZ still has billions of dollars and is looking at a pretty good sentence given the allegations. Monitorship does not entail unlimited government access to records, it mostly means a bunch of adult hall-monitors reading off compliance checklists, making sure they are being followed, then writing to the government every quarter about the remaining items on the checklists.
Yes, there's the SAR lookback, but no one reads those anyways and probably won't give the government much because criminals routinely use accounts registered with fake or stolen IDs. Binance still accepts customers from countries like Venezuela, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, etc that "respected" financial institutions wouldn't touch with a 39.5 foot pole. There are still people making $50,000 USDT -> cash transactions every day with Binance P2P.
- dist-epoch 1 year agoWhen will Tether implode?
I've been reading about how that is imminent here for 3 years now.
- AlexandrB 1 year agoAs always, "market can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent". I wouldn't bet on Tether collapsing at any specific time period, but there are so many unanswered questions about how that business is run that a reckoning seems broadly inevitable. We'll see I guess.
Theranos seemed ultra sketchy for a long time before something actually happened.
- wslh 1 year ago> ... I wouldn't bet on Tether collapsing at any specific time period ...
I think we are completely missing something in the discussion of stable coins such as Tether and USDC even if they are not equal: while the currency is fixed toward the dollar in the blockchain, they receive interest on the real money they have (whatever real balance it is). This could make them very profitable with time.
- wslh 1 year ago
- csomar 1 year agoMy guess it won’t. If you have been following the news, they are under a lot of scrutiny (usa/new york) that I doubt they are the disaster people think they are.
That and they are fully cooperating with regulators (ie: they have blacklist functionality in their smart contract)
- hi5eyes 1 year agotether has an ingenious biz model. take in money from entities that cant redeem thru their service and tether doesn't offer interest on the money lol
- 1 year ago
- charcircuit 1 year agoSince their assets > liabilities it will wind down rather than impload unless the entire economy imploads.
- simmerup 1 year agoWhy would you assume their assets are worth more than their liabilities
- charcircuit 1 year agoTether publishes the totals daily.
$94,120,164,388.60 > $90,912,507,793.55
- charcircuit 1 year ago
- simmerup 1 year ago
- AlexandrB 1 year ago
- mgaunard 1 year agoIn practice people use the blockchain to move assets between accounts tied to some of the many competing centralized trading markets (of which Binance is only the biggest one).
They also use it for OTC transactions, which are typically also hedged on centralized markets due to their uncertainty.
The centralized markets also function as banks, where you can borrow or cross-margin your positions.
So it works, it's just that only using blockchain is not good enough to deal with speculation needs and market volatility.
- jongjong 1 year agoMy understanding of crypto (having worked in the industry for years) is that it's not about decentralisation so much as it is about reliability and transparency.
The decentralization aspect was mostly necessary in the early days to avoid being shut down by government. Now that crypto is widespread, it is not as important. What is important though are things that are missing from our current fiat monetary system; transparency and reliability.
While the fiat monetary system appears to be very reliable for the individual, it is in fact extremely unreliable due to its lack of transparency. Governments can easily manipulate the supply (and therefore the true value) of currency behind the scenes without your knowledge and that is one of the primary mechanisms via which it steals wealth from individuals and deprive them of opportunities.
Arguments against cryptocurrency are essentially saying that these individuals who are being robbed and deprived of opportunities don't matter because the system only needs to work for rich people and fool the poor into thinking that it doesn't harm them.
Unfortunately, many poor people understand exactly how the system robs them.
- It devalues our salary contracts via inflation of buying power.
- Centralized currency creation centralizes opportunities due to the Cantillon Effect and this creates an asymmetric playing field which unfairly benefits corporations and large organizations.
- Given that income tax is levied against each transfer between individuals, newly issued currency cannot travel very far from the government money printers as each hop away from the printers incurs a significant additional tax in the remaining untaxed amount which keeps shrinking. This exacerbates the Cantillon Effect and punishes regional areas and individuals who are far from the centers of money printing. It keeps all economic activity on a very short leash which is held tightly by the government.
- dale_glass 1 year ago> My understanding of crypto (having worked in the industry for years) is that it's not about decentralisation so much as it is about reliability and transparency.
None of those have panned out. Reliability and transparency aren't there either, because the state of crypto so far is that people keep on falling for scam after scam and getting screwed.
No, just like with the original concept of "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System", there's very few true believers that are into it for any such reasons like decentralization, reliability or transparency.
The vast, vast majority just wants to get rich. It's that simple. The technical merits or characteristics of the underlying system are completely unimportant to the vast majority.
- jongjong 1 year agoThat's because quality projects are being suppressed. Governments have been working hard to destroy crypto's reputation by enabling scams. When I worked in crypto, the projects that were receiving EU government funding were usually scams or had a scam aspect to them. The agencies which were supposed to regulate the industry often turned a blind eye to obvious misconduct and suppressed small projects. Why did FTX get away with it for so long? You think the government had no idea? Even I suspected something fishy and I didn't even try to look.
In any case, individuals should be allowed to choose their monetary system and not be coerced into a specific scam which is what the fiat system is. If people could choose who their scammer is, that is already progress from what we have now.
- nullc 1 year agoPeople made SEC and FTC complaints about both FTX and the Earn program at Gemini which received no attention.
I think the theory that they're intentionally enabling scams though fails occam's razor. A simpler explanation is that they're lazy and dysfunctional, it's much much easier to prosecute a scam AFTER its vanished everyone money than before.
- throwawaycrypt0 1 year agoYou are preying on people, that's why you use this type of cult-like language. You can't back up your points with evidence other than vague references to "governments" (which ones?) "scamming people" (who? how? other than "salary deflation" - which country doesn't let people negotiate their salary or has absurdly high inflation?). I'd think by now you'd have listed a good project, but you've only referenced "good projects being suppressed"
- dale_glass 1 year agoYeah, no. I remember the days when crypto was supposed to be independent from the government. It was supposed to exist independently, without any central party having to say what was good and wasn't. It shouldn't need any regulation.
If crypto has reliability and transparency, then how did FTX happen? Transparency should have made it obvious to everyone something fishy was going on very early on.
- wolverine876 1 year agoCould you provide evidence? How do we differentiate these claims from the many others, in many domains, that blame hidden powers?
- nullc 1 year ago
- jongjong 1 year ago
- AlexandrB 1 year ago> Governments can easily manipulate the supply (and therefore the true value) of currency behind the scenes without your knowledge
Can you provide an example? Central bank fucking with interest rates or doing QE is broadcast widely to the public. If one believes such moves will de-value the currency, there are ways to hedge against that - including the old standby: gold. And what does "true value" mean in this case? The value of anything is what someone is willing to trade for it. There's no "true value" the government can set that won't show up in the market somewhere.
- jongjong 1 year agoHow about people who do not have capital and physically cannot trade against the government's inefficiencies? You're forgetting the majority of people. Myself included.
The government has historically benefited those who understood the system, but it doesn't benefit them now. Quite the opposite. The system is now working against those who understand it most. That's why we're seeing a decline in the west.
- dboreham 1 year ago> what does "true value" mean
Obviously the number of big macs you can buy per unit currency.
- jongjong 1 year ago
- 1 year ago
- dale_glass 1 year ago
- paulpauper 1 year agoWhy is this so? Consider. If a business becomes big and powerful, it becomes more vulnerable to government regulation
This certainly has not been the case with 'big tech' or 'big insurance'. Regulation amounts to slaps on the wrist, fines. Not being shut down or the key people arrested.
- tmpfs 1 year agoA lot of comments here but I have still never seen people talk about the absolutely perfect use case for a block chain.
Mandate that all government spending use a block chain so that all citizens can see government spending. All public finances visible to all citizens.
I think we have got it backwards trying to use the technology as untraceable peer to peer currency, instead focus on visibility into government finances to combat corruption and nepotism.
- wolverine876 1 year agoCouldn't we just as easily publish the government's ledger?
- nradov 1 year agoYou can already see government budgets. The process is very open (except for some limited secret programs).
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder...
- VoodooJuJu 1 year agoThis doesn't fix corruption. Corrupt spending is often quite conspicuous, it's just people won't or can't do anything about it.
- wolverine876 1 year ago
- bragr 1 year agoIt is going to being very interesting to see all the prosecutions that result from this. The feds know how to make good use of the access they're about to have based what they've been able to do with other exchanges' records.
- lulznews 1 year agoFeds are doing a stealth CBDC takeover …
- b33j0r 1 year agoI’m so glad I don’t remember how much money was in that wallet. Let’s just call it 5, with no units. Helps.
- peyton 1 year agoHah, yeah, it’s unsurprising that a new asset class isn’t very popular on a forum frequented by the government’s “workhorse” taxpayers. Especially an asset class created by people with the same skills as them, rather than guys in suits. Yes, some programmers made up money and didn’t have to work for an employer or give up half to the government.
I’m not really buying the sociological/political angle in the article. The centralizing force is attention.
- b33j0r 1 year agoThe eternal question is, “heyyyy how’d they do that? They have to pay me for that, right?”
If only we could limit problems to death, and not taxes! And I got paid interest rates!
- b33j0r 1 year ago
- peyton 1 year ago