TouchArcade Is Shutting Down

157 points by samsolomon 9 months ago | 100 comments
  • rightlane 9 months ago
    One of the last bastions of good games journalism, and the only good mobile gaming site. Another casualty of the garbage listicles and AI generated garbage that fills up search results. I would do anything to have the old, fun, internet back. This monstrosity we have now just isn't doing it for me.
    • thierrydamiba 9 months ago
      Can you explain to me what you mean by this? What about the internet today isn’t fun? There are plenty of websites that don’t have garbage listicles and AI slop, they just aren’t as popular.
      • mercacona 9 months ago
        But they don’t get attention-public-funding enough to be profitable because of the garbage. The garbage is burying them in search results but also literally.
        • firebirdn99 9 months ago
          i don't know if they were ever profitable. But certainly i think there's been a paradigm shift to commercializing everything (mostly through advertising) the last decade or two and if you fall behind, whatever growth you were aiming for goes away and revenues shrink.

          And also almost all advertising revenues have probably become centralized with google search, social media by facebook, and youtube, etc. That combined with rising costs, and higher opportunity cost to instead do something else means these sites are biting the dust.

          • thierrydamiba 9 months ago
            You’re just complaining that the average person doesn’t like what you like, which seems silly. I’m sure the average person thinks what you like is garbage. Who gets to be the judge?
            • 93po 9 months ago
              literally what?
            • johnnyanmac 9 months ago
              Well if you wanted a whole deep dive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ZCzhoeQMg&t=828s

              But I can distill it down to

              1. social media coalescing to maybe 5-7 different sites in the country, which all have a similar "minimalist" feel, based on non-controversial UX designs and trend chasing (TikTok being the current trend).

              2. search engines (so, Google and Bing) steering people towards SEO optimized slop over the proper quality blogs/websites. You're incenivized to clickbait to get attention. you need to dig real deep to find the gold these days, and the pile is only getting deeper.

              3. Monetization forcing more and more ads for companies to survive, if at all. Some sites went the paywall route instead, but news these days is very hard to monetize for the mainstream (again, social media will deliver it)

              4. few/no personalization. The Myspace era shifting towards the Facebook era really killed this idea of having a real, unique brand and identity (due to #1).

              5. Social media became both lonlier and more hostile, somehow. You don't really make "friends" on the internet the same way you may have been able to in the 2000's where you just find some MMO or chatroom and bond with others. But at the same time, everything is so loud. People aren't talking to each other on insagram/tiktok/twitter, they are at best talking about themselves as a brand (so, advertising themselves. Or maybe literally advertising on behalf of a company), or talking at other people about whatever little drama of the day/week is going on. When's the last time you had a proper conversation with a rando on Twitter?

              The internet is vast though, so you can indeed still find the fun. But you are becoming an excavator day by day to do so. And if you're into any more niche hobbies, I wish you the best of luck in finding others these days (the coalescing of groups to reddit and FB is a whole other rant).

              • raxxorraxor 9 months ago
                It is still fun, but some services are severely degraded. A lot of sites require accounts, Google search quality is extremely bad, chatting and communities are behind shitty corporate platforms and I include GitHub and Discord here. Open social networks are often full of crazies, so that more people remain in private groups...
                • nolist_policy 9 months ago
                  > A lot of sites require accounts

                  This is mostly for fighting spam.

                • PhasmaFelis 9 months ago
                  Can you name some? I know they exist, but in my experience 99% of them are small personal blogs maintained as a hobby. In 2024, it is practically impossible to focus on solid journalism and turn a profit, and every site I've seen try has either gone under or been forced to sell out to bottom-feeders and adopt listicles, etc.
                • austinjp 9 months ago
                  Some of it might still be here:

                  https://search.marginalia.nu/explore/random

                  • amadeuspagel 9 months ago
                    Did you ever do anything to support that website?
                    • 9 months ago
                    • dlbucci 9 months ago
                      Now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time. I almost struggle to remember where I heard them from, but I distinctly remember reading this site trying to find the next great game for my first-gen iPod Touch. I can't say I've ever followed it closely, but there's a certain sadness bound to happen when a childhood site goes down.

                      I'll poor one out for TouchArcade (and Joystiq. and Rooster Teeth. Just checked, and gonintendo is still kicking!)

                      • algaeselect 9 months ago
                        It's amazing to me that a website that publishes articles (real articles, not AI slop) about games can't even support the livelihood of 3 people, and yet mobile game companies shovel out godawful games and continue to exist. It blew my mind when I saw how there were several games which were some combination of match-3 + PvP (so that you can whale your way to victory).
                        • nkrisc 9 months ago
                          It’s a shame for sure, as I’ve occasionally used sites like TA as a consumer. But it’s also not anything I’d ever actually pay for. If these kinds of sites go away then I’ll just go on living without them. They’re nice to have, but they’re not necessary by any stretch. Life will go on, with or without video game journalism.
                          • homarp 9 months ago
                            Out of curiosity, what kind of sites you pay for?

                            As a consumer, I struggle to find a voice with strong opinion (strong as in ' this game sucks ' and as in ' we found this little gem on itchi.io and it's great' )

                            • nkrisc 9 months ago
                              I’ve subscribed to news sites in the past, but these days I would probably only pay for local news.

                              Currently there isn’t any site I pay for.

                          • bmalicoat 9 months ago
                            As a mobile game dev, this is a bummer. I have been fortunate to get review and preview coverage on a few of my games from TA. There aren't many sites doing what that do. I get that the market has moved and now discovery happens in the App Store and via advertisement dollars, but growing up reading EGM or IGN.com and seeing people excited about a game just from a few screenshots colored me for life. I'm sad mobile game players don't have that opportunity.
                            • johnnyanmac 9 months ago
                              unfortunate but inevitable. I'm sure I don't need to tell you how the mobile scene became in these past 15 years or so. When you have companies pouring tens of millions of dollars to advertise to a more casual audience who probably isn't looking for a professional review, where does a mobile journalist like TA come in? Meanwhile, the more console-esque audience left because less and less games out on mobile bothered appealing to them.

                              Not TA's fault, but they were pincered on both ends and couldn't do much as the medium they reviewed changed in real time.

                            • MBCook 9 months ago
                              Really too bad, but I’m not surprised. I know losing affiliate money many years ago hurt bad.

                              But the truth is I don’t care much anymore. I loved TA because they helped me find fun games. And while I’ve found a few from them in the last few years like Peglin most of their coverage is unsurprisingly what most of the industry makes: pay to win with smurfberries advertising laden crap.

                              I strongly believe the iOS gaming scene died the day IAPs came out.

                              There is the incredibly rare indie game that you can pay for now, and Apple Arcade. While I enjoy that most of the good games I’ve played before (a plus on the name = existed before). Those that I haven’t played or are new often were obviously designed for IAPs and aren’t that fun when they’re removed.

                              And I know devs seem to hate it, and I’m not surprised. But it’s the only option I’ve got left.

                              I’ll miss you, Touch Arcade. You long outlasted the era of greatness for the platform you covered. Thanks for making it as long as you did. One more sign we can’t have nice things because ruthless unnecessarily exploitive capitalism.

                              • johnnyanmac 9 months ago
                                in some ways, this is on consumer choice as well. I'm sure people like you were more console oriented, but the MTX era meant they could appeal to a casual audience who would slowly drop money here and there, for games that are simpler to iterate on compared to something like Infinity Blade or Chaos Rings. Or watch ads in-between their 30-60 second level-based games.

                                Or in the opposite way, the ruthless Korean MMO model matched very well in mobile and you have that same hyper-hardcore audience dropping thousands for a new character in a gacha. You don't need 99% of that console audience paying $10 when that whale is spending $100k/month, consistently.

                                So it makes sense that the console players, no longer appealed to, left while the newer models found other audiences.

                                • MBCook 9 months ago
                                  I understand having other business models. I personally hate ads, but I’m also happy to buy a game and then pay to remove the ads. And I’m willing to pay a lot more than the $1 that most people seem to think is overpriced.

                                  I also understand having some in app purchases.

                                  My gripe is a few games took a really exploitive route with in app purchases. Having extremely aggressive timers and tons of currencies. And they CLEANED UP. From what I’ve heard it sounds like it’s mostly people who pay nothing, children being tricked into paying, and a small number of people who spend an insane amount of money. The whales.

                                  But whatever the mix it made money so every game publisher started racing to turn out identical skinner boxes.

                                  This had two effects. First, that’s what the publishers were interested in so it’s probably a lot harder to get anything else through. Second, because those games are “free“ it changed pricing expectations that games and other apps should be “free“.

                                  So if you wanted to make a good game and sell it at even a really low price, people screamed at you. How DARE you charge $1.99.

                                  By driving down the expected price we ended up at a point where the only things that can make any money at all or either crammed with ads that get shown to you constantly or designed to milk as much money out of people as possible.

                                  Games only have to be good enough to keep people looking at the ads or paying for another set of Smurfberries.

                                  Worst of all even games that were already made and were absolute classics have been ruined. Because they either get updates to add those features (Flight Control) or sequels to change the game to be more like one of those that makes a lot of money (Plants be Zombies 2, Trism 2).

                                  • johnnyanmac 9 months ago
                                    Yeah, I think we are in full agreement. I usually prefer to try and offset downer news like this with some attempt at a solution. But I know those solutions won't come from anything currently in the scene; not from Apple/Google, not from whales, not from the devs. We basically need a storefront focused on premium games so we at least forge a new audience. A "Steam" of mobile. We can't drill through the diamonds but we can drill an alternative path, in theory.

                                    I'm very slowly working on a PC game but I always fancied the idea of also doing a mobile port. It'd be a fun challenge and I know a phone can be more accessible for many. Due to the factors you highlighted I know that's a fool errand in the current state of mobile. Even if I made it a truly free game I wouldn't get many views (let alone downloads), especially compared to all the dopamine inducing hyoercausla games or high budget services. The native stores are just hyper black holes for people like me. So this "mobile Steam" would really help motivate people like me.

                              • zaptrem 9 months ago
                                Why haven’t AAA games on mobile devices been a huge success? Millions of people love their Nintendo Switches, but they’re toasters compared to modern Android and especially iOS devices. With a cheap controller attachment you could provide a much better experience with these devices most people already own. I expected basically every AAA Switch port to come to iOS as well, but they haven’t.
                                • Terretta 9 months ago
                                  Assassins Creed Mirage, Resident Evil 4, suggest gamers don't think of these devices and casuals don't play these games:

                                  https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/28/aaa-games-iphone-ipad-arent-a...

                                  Meanwhile, before IAP destroyed retail pricing of games, there were some, but now the devices can run great games, it's all IAP dross.

                                  Braid, Civ VI, Disco Elysium, various others show the devices are fine. Genshin Impact shows a casual fan audience is there, most likely in my mind is: phone other than "Max" screens seems too small, and few people realize you can pair your favorite controller to an iPad. (Xbox Cloud Gaming works so well, it's confusing dedicated cloud players exist.)

                                  • dragonwriter 9 months ago
                                    On Android, Civ VI has pretty horrible reviews, largely around stability; I think the devices are fine, but I'm not sure I'd cite Civ VI as support for it.
                                  • zinckiwi 9 months ago
                                    Price anchoring, I suspect. Apparently, people simply won't accept mobile games at "game prices" ($20-60) instead of "mobile prices" ($0-3). I am the opposite, refusing to engage with anything freemium, but I am also in the clear minority.
                                    • musicale 9 months ago
                                      1) Phone gamers seem happy with awful "f2p" games that they don't have to "pay" for; big-budget mobile games (Genshin Impact, Diablo Immortal) are still "f2p" because it makes a ton of money

                                      2) Breakout hits on mobile (Angry Birds, etc.) are usually designed to be played on the go in short sessions, while AAA games usually aren't

                                      3) Switch games come on physical cartridges, can be borrowed/lent/reold, and will keep working (except for online features) over years of firmware updates and hardware revisions

                                      4) Nintendo primed the Switch pump with a stellar collection of exclusive first-party games (many inherited from the Wii U) that are rarely discounted; Apple Arcade is good but can't beat Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Pokémon/etc.

                                      5) Switch offers seamless local multiplayer (Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros.) even with two joy-cons and no TV, fully offline gaming (game cards), and many other well-designed features (even the "parental" on-off button that shuts the console off when you hold it down.) Nintendo delivers what it always has, a terrific home (and handheld) gaming experience.

                                      • zaptrem 9 months ago
                                        1. Switch gamers own phones, so with the right marketing could also be phone gamers.

                                        3. I doubt this has a big impact given empirically my friends who own Switches buy everything though the digital store.

                                        4. Apple has the billions to buy ports of every AAA game on release (not years after like Resident Evil) for years, and IMO they should (and combine it with a big marketing push).

                                        5. That’s true, you won’t beat those features with a phone right now (though they’re within reach for a determined platform owner)

                                        • musicale 9 months ago
                                          > 4. Apple has the billions to buy ports of every AAA game on release (not years after like Resident Evil) for years, and IMO they should (and combine it with a big marketing push).

                                          They certainly do. I'm sure they've run the numbers to see how much it would help their bottom line, and the answer might be "not enough." They might also be looking at how Microsoft isn't having an easy time with Xbox (in spite of the popular [34M+ subscribers] and acclaimed Game Pass service, excellent consoles with a terrific AAA game library, exclusive franchises like Halo/Gears/Forza, and owning Bethesda, Blizzard, etc.)

                                          For now, for better or for worse, Apple is making a ton of money from f2p and "mobile" games and doesn't seem to have much incentive to change its course. Every so often they say something about Mac gaming, Apple TV gaming, etc. but not much has changed.

                                          Apple TV could be more competitive as game console, but so far it has been a hard sell for gaming because of 1) lack of system-seller platform exclusives (Apple Arcade is good but can't really compete with Sony and Nintendo's exclusives and franchises), 2) no high-quality game controller in the box, 3) (as you note) not enough recent AAA games.

                                          Apple is dumping billions into Apple TV+ for exclusive shows, trying to compete against Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc.; they might be wary of investing heavily and directly in gaming when iOS gaming is still basically printing money (though the EU might be forcing some changes in Apple's business model.)

                                    • agnakaraara 9 months ago
                                      Hi, I made a website called [AppRaven](https://appraven.net) which has a dedicated iOS game reviews section, you might want to give it a try :) (I know very well it’s not a replacement, but for those seeking great game recommendations and reviews, welcome!)
                                      • soup10 9 months ago
                                        Them featuring my game in a front page article was a big moment for me(and helped it become a viral hit). Best of luck guys.
                                        • davidczech 9 months ago
                                          Darn, I remember checking this website everyday for new games when I had the 1st generation iPod Touch.
                                          • Jyaif 9 months ago
                                            Shame!

                                            Fwiw nowadays MiniReview is a very good source of games: https://minireview.io

                                            • drawkbox 9 months ago
                                              End of an era. TouchArcade was one of the better review sites and it was great to get featured there. Going for 16 years was a really good run. I hope the people involved land in good places. Game marketing has changed so much during that time. I do wish affiliate programs for games never went away as it was an entire economy and another way others would help get sales.
                                              • pnw 9 months ago
                                                I remember when Apple killed the Touch Arcade app because apparently apps that include reviews of other apps are verboten. I am sure that sucked for them but in retrospect was probably good for me because it weaned me off finding and playing games on my phone.
                                                • benoau 9 months ago
                                                  They went to war with everyone that could make apps popular before that too.

                                                  https://www.pocketgamer.com/features/opinion-apples-move-to-...

                                                  > Of course, the fact that revenue generated by the per install business isn't funneled through the App Store so Apple can take its 30 percent cut will be another factor in the company's decision.

                                                  By coincidence, Apple ended up getting a premium cut of customer acquisition costs on iPhone.

                                                • maxglute 9 months ago
                                                  Too bad. I wish STEAM would open up listings to mobile games, even if unsold by steam just so mobile gets STEAM curators treatment. Hell they should break into the mobile emulator game, but I guess driving people mobile would hurt their bottomline.
                                                  • archerx 9 months ago
                                                    This is sad, TouchArcade reviewed my very first game on iOS back in the iPhone 4 days. A lot of places ignored my game but TouchArcade gave my game a fair chance and I will forever appreciate them for that.

                                                    Thanks to the TA team and here’s hoping the best for them.

                                                    • n3xus_ 9 months ago
                                                      I'm wondering how many sites are being affected due to AI, I've noticed myself using Google less
                                                      • minimaxir 9 months ago
                                                        TouchArcade dying is completely unrelated to the AI slop boom: as the post notes they've been on the deathbed for many many years due to shifts both in web revenue and mobile game interests. They were good when premium mobile games sold well (TouchArcade was the best place to learn about deals) but that time is long gone.

                                                        Notably, websites specialized around gacha mobile games have been doing very well.

                                                        • PlunderBunny 9 months ago
                                                          I recall reading several years ago that Apple dropping affiliate links (? Not sure if that’s the correct name) was a major financial blow. I had no interest in the podcast or the reviews of games on other platforms, or the increased coverage of anime games, but I continued to support them financially in a modest way just so that I could read the roundup of new games released every week. A few years ago, there would be several games I would check out each week, but more recently I would just scroll through the list and find nothing of interest.
                                                        • johnnyanmac 9 months ago
                                                          sites specialized around gacha are probably not just western. I imagine sustaining a few korean or japanese site managers is cheaper than in the US.

                                                          There's a few english-first sites talking about gacha, but they are much smaller endeavors. Not much different from a blog managed by 1-2 people that just need a few hundred dollars (if that) to pay for servers.

                                                      • fidotron 9 months ago
                                                        This is a highly visible manifestation of something that has been going on for years. I have been around mobile games for 20 years (going back to J2ME) and have never seen interest in the field so low.

                                                        Essentially the noise is that people are locked into habits in the app stores. It takes huge amounts of money to get people to try something new, and this invariably leads to amazing conservatism on the part of publishers. The big breakout hit last year was a Monopoly spin off, admittedly well executed, but with absolutely massive marketing pushes.

                                                        Steam is squeezing on one side and web games on the other. When the mobile herd simply moves where the marketing dollars lead them who needs reviews?

                                                        • golergka 9 months ago
                                                          I worked in mobile gamedev a long time, and I remember the excitement around 2010, where it really seemed like we got a new, innovative platform which will allow for completely new types of gameplay and turn a lot of casuals into real gamers at the same time. But turned out, the mobile crowd (which is basically most of humanity at this point) really prefer spending their money in a very specific genres, and innovative gameplay just doesn't convert that well.

                                                          Marketing doesn't lead people. It just enhances the signal about what people choose. Marketing can only drive an install, but after that, it's the game quality and a person's preferences that decide the LTV.

                                                          • mrkramer 9 months ago
                                                            >innovative gameplay just doesn't convert that well

                                                            Mobile gaming might be casual but the touch UI is huge innovation by itself. Touch gaming controls is the real thing that makes the difference in mobile gaming compared to other types of gaming.

                                                            • fidotron 9 months ago
                                                              > Marketing doesn't lead people. It just enhances the signal about what people choose.

                                                              Marketing is also the process of surveying the market and deciding what to make in the first place.

                                                              • golergka 9 months ago
                                                                Good point, I should have phrased it differently.
                                                              • pier25 9 months ago
                                                                > the mobile crowd (which is basically most of humanity at this point) really prefer spending their money in a very specific genres, and innovative gameplay

                                                                Yeah although what percentage of mobile users actually play on their phones regularly these days?

                                                                It's anecdotal but I haven't played a mobile game in almost a decade now. I played a lot on my iPad 1 and 3.

                                                                The app fever of 2010 has passed. Again anecdotal, but I avoid installing apps on my phone as much as I can.

                                                                My wife still plays candy crush on her iPad almost every night but has zero interest in any other game.

                                                                • jamesgeck0 9 months ago
                                                                  Anecdotally, when I was in Asia I saw people playing mobile games all over the place. Mobile is the biggest gaming platform by a large margin.
                                                              • burningChrome 9 months ago
                                                                I used to be a huge mobile gaming person, but then a few years ago, I found out several of my mobile games were available on PC so I just stopped gaming on my phone all together. I have several co-workers who also did the same thing. We used to talk all the time about whatever new game was coming out on mobile, but now its all about PC and console titles.

                                                                You're 100% right that it takes massive amounts of money to move the needle for gamers now. It seems like the group I run in, whatever your game is and you're good at, you stay in that lane. Any new additions or versions, you're on right away and excited about.

                                                                It takes a lot for the people I know to try a new game and actually spend the time and money to see if they like it. Nobody I know is willing to do that now since the economy is not great and money is really tight all over. The people I know are only going to buy what they know they'll like.

                                                                I feel like a lot of this is people sticking with what they know since the market is so saturated like you point out.

                                                                • tourmalinetaco 9 months ago
                                                                  I haven’t bought a new game for myself for years. Most of what I play is retro emulation, and what PC titles I do play are ones I already own and have a lot of replay value. Indie titles are far cooler than AAA, but even they don’t speak out to me as often. Why spend $60 on a flop like Hyenas, or even $20 on a game inspired by Harvest Moon, when I can actually play the original games for free? Especially on mobile, where most games are idle timewasters looking to lock me into a microtransaction loop. I‘d rather boot up a GBA game and spend my time on that.
                                                                  • jhbadger 9 months ago
                                                                    >or even $20 on a game inspired by Harvest Moon, when I can actually play the original games for free?

                                                                    If by that you are referring to Stardew Valley, while it is indeed inspired by Harvest Moon, it is so much richer and deeper and after playing it I guarantee you won't want to go back . It is like saying why play a modern Roguelike when you can just play Rogue.

                                                                    • nox101 9 months ago
                                                                      To you and the previous commenter, is it possible you've just aged out of the market? (not sure what other word to use than "aged") but my point is, most people eventually change their habits in almost everything.

                                                                      The way I game now has changed drastically over the years for various reasons. The latest for me is probably just being tired of games that seem 3% different than the last fps/shumps/twin-stick-shooter/metroidvania/...

                                                                      • golergka 9 months ago
                                                                        If you're already pirating games with game emulators, what's stopping you from pirating AAA titles as well? I'm not making any value judgement here, it just feels like you compare apples to oranges.
                                                                    • layer8 9 months ago
                                                                      Then there’s also people opting to watch gaming streams or videos to experience a game, instead of playing themselves.
                                                                      • the_af 9 months ago
                                                                        I do this with DCS.

                                                                        Flightsims fascinate me, and I used to play the old Microprose sims, but nowadays it's too expensive and time-consuming a niche. DCS is expensive, both the hardware and the modules, and it also requires way too much time.

                                                                        So I watch a couple of YouTube channels dedicated to DCS, and get to "live" the experience through them.

                                                                      • chasing 9 months ago
                                                                        The mobile gaming market is overwhelmed with cheap trash. It's what you see when you open a mobile game store. (I just opened the iOS App Store games section and, apart from Minecraft and Roblox -- which I'm not interested in -- everything on the main screen pretty much looks terrible.)

                                                                        It's a marked contrast to the major consoles and other game store platforms which, for whatever reason, do a much better job of not just promoting stuff that will be profitable -- but of promoting stuff that's not trash so when you think of a Nintendo Switch you think of amazing Mario games; when you think of a Playstation you think of The Last of Us or Elden Ring or whatever. You know if you crack open Steam that you'll see interesting stuff.

                                                                        The difference may be the norms set on pricing. Console games are still $30-$70. People complained about the horrible race-to-the-bottom on mobile game pricing in the early days. And they complained about the total switch over to micro-transactions. Those complaints were ignored. So the marketplace was overwhelmed by companies who could execute cheap, micro-transaction-addictive games the best. And so I think the market generally treats mobile games like garbage. Which they by-and-large seem to be. (With notable exceptions!)

                                                                        • fidotron 9 months ago
                                                                          > And they complained about the total switch over to micro-transactions. Those complaints were ignored.

                                                                          There is a good reason for this. “Premium” mobile games never reliably made that much money, even during the early iOS boom. If you were a publisher it took having quite a few hits to compensate, and Android was more trouble than it was worth for a long time.

                                                                          A successful MTX game made several orders of magnitude more. (Instead of getting low millions you would be getting hundreds of millions). The process was perfectly satirized in South Park by the “Canadian Department of Mobile Gaming” which like all the best South Park jokes wasn’t nearly as fictional as might be assumed.

                                                                          Such games are “cheap trash” in the same sense as a vegas casino. Similarly the actual operating of them at scale becomes very sophisticated. Team Fortress 2 is an example of Valve indulging in exactly this on Steam, so it is far from isolated to mobile.

                                                                        • 9 months ago
                                                                          • johnnyanmac 9 months ago
                                                                            > which, for whatever reason, do a much better job of not just promoting stuff that will be profitable

                                                                            it's simply the law of large numbers. The early Switch was a goldmine for indies. If you could get a game on in the first 12-18 months, you were nearly guaranteed decent sales. That mine ended about 2 years in, though. Still a big market, but you will probably be buried more often.

                                                                            Now Go to Steam. Decent storefront based on recommendations, but due to user tagging and the sheer volume of releases you're bound to get some random $2 hentai game everynow and then, no matter how fine tuned your filters on. This is partially because again, steam leaves it to the community to tag, but those weid recommendations are a peek into the surface of how much slop there truly is on Steam. And we don't even talk about how 99% of indies fare on Steam.

                                                                            Google/Apple's stores are just Steam x 1000. There's millions of apps released per year, nearly impossible to curate manually. And due to the f2p nature, it'd take a lot longer to build a proper recommendation engine. because games optimized towards playtime, not getting $5 out of you ASAP.

                                                                            But on top of all that: mobile games aren't on that power curve where they peak sales for the firs month then trickle along. Roblox was a highest earner for years and probably makes more revenue over time, not less. So the top selling board doesn't change. And google/apple have negative incentive to change that, because they will keep selling and they will get their cut. Who cares about new titles when the old ones are making hundreds of millions years later?

                                                                            >And so I think the market generally treats mobile games like garbage. Which they by-and-large seem to be.

                                                                            well, money talks, and Whales can disproportionately talk louder than some complaints online about mobile games. That's all that matters to the company. The best compromise would seem to be to support those games offering console experiences (more and more these days also on console/PC as well) but using a f2p monetization system if that's desirable. it won't change the candy crushes and robloxes, but it does show you can still grab console-oriented players on mobile.

                                                                          • johnnyanmac 9 months ago
                                                                            I've been predicting a "Steam of mobile" for a while now, a place to curate for those console ports or 2008-2012 style premium mobile games. I'm baffled that it looks like Epic might beat Valve to such an endeavor. Seemed like such an obvious slam dunk (really just a matter of talking to like, 10-20 indie devs with games on mobile already like Stardew. Then the audience and other devs will follow), but I suppose Steam isn't exactly strap for cash to try.

                                                                            I suppose in all fairness it was well deserved of Epic. Valve had no interest and Epic's 7+ year war with Apple and Google is probably a part of why no other player has tried this method. Hopefully these changes open the door for other vendors to break that monopoly.

                                                                            • mrkramer 9 months ago
                                                                              >I've been predicting a "Steam of mobile" for a while now, a place to curate for those console ports or 2008-2012 style premium mobile games. I'm baffled that it looks like Epic might beat Valve to such an endeavor.

                                                                              I thought somebody would make "Xfire of mobile" in the early days of smartphones but is too late now I suppose. Epic won't beat Steam at anything: not at Store, not at live service games(Valve makes better games(Counter-Strike, Dota 2, TF2, new MOBA game - Deadlock)), Epic only has Fortnite and Epic can't beat Valve at revenue, Valve overall makes more money than Epic.

                                                                              • johnnyanmac 9 months ago
                                                                                >I thought somebody would make "Xfire of mobile" in the early days of smartphones but is too late now I suppose.

                                                                                Pretty sure the idea wholesale was dead on arrival. Much less invasive apps on IOS were taken down by Apple.

                                                                                And the appification of mobile more or less split that idea into 4-5 different apps. Discord for know what friends are playing and chatting with them, twitch to stream games, any given social media for IM, built in phone features for recording/straming playback.

                                                                                >Epic won't beat Steam at anything

                                                                                I mean, Epic wins the mobile store by default if Steam isn't even showing a modicrum of interest in the platform to begin with. And I don't see any other competitor rising up in that space.

                                                                                Even their steam client app is probably the worst part about Valve from a technical level. I'd be very shocked if Valve did anything with the mobile platform this decade.

                                                                            • abecedarius 9 months ago
                                                                              Seems a natural result of monopolist app stores treating software developers as a complement to be commoditized. That relationship was what held me back the most when I was tempted to write for iPod Touch.
                                                                              • bsder 9 months ago
                                                                                > It takes huge amounts of money to get people to try something new, and this invariably leads to amazing conservatism on the part of publishers.

                                                                                This is purely the fault of enshittifying the mobile gaming experience.

                                                                                I moved through various genres like Puzzle and Dragons, Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, etc.

                                                                                Each one of those games was a lot of fun because initially they left a path to play them with skill instead of money. Putting together a set of characters to beat the tough bosses in Puzzle and Dragons required a lot of skill to get the big combos you would need since you were underpowered. Clash of Clans was neat because you couldn't make a castle to protect against everything and someone with some skill could probably get an extra star off you with some work (I was really good at timing the placement of dragons against the algorithms to exploit seams and make higher leveled players cry). I had a Clash Royale deck based on Golems and Lightning that would win about 30% of the time even against players who had super powerful decks (I was casting things before stuff even hit the field in anticipation of what players would do and timing the delay from the system--sure it was high risk but also high reward).

                                                                                Alas, the siren call of the microtransaction is strong. People who spend money expect to win and complain when they don't. Those games eventually all nerfed any skill-only paths. And then they expanded to make massive purchasing the only real path toward higher levels.

                                                                                And that led me to stop playing mobile games altogether. There is no point. If a game is money or gacha, it's completely not interesting. If a game has a skill path, it will get nuked post haste as soon as the publisher figures out that it exists.

                                                                                The only winning move is not to play.

                                                                                • 9 months ago
                                                                                • smileson2 9 months ago
                                                                                  Feels like the race to the bottom is nearing the finish line
                                                                                  • incrudible 9 months ago
                                                                                    Case in point, I just saw one of these bizarre advertisements for a game where they show some simplistic gameplay that is supposed to hook you, which is not at all the point of the actual game. It was about a pregnant women and her other child, freezing outside in the winter. I had to watch it to the end and it turns out the game was... Gardenscapes.
                                                                                    • jandrese 9 months ago
                                                                                      The one thing I like about new Twitter is how those deceptive ads can get community notes that say "gameplay depicted is not in the game".
                                                                                      • bonestamp2 9 months ago
                                                                                        Ugh, if they make an ad that has non-game game-play that gets a lot of clicks... why not make that game instead/too?
                                                                                      • 9 months ago
                                                                                        • mschuster91 9 months ago
                                                                                          Yeah they've run shitty ads for years now.

                                                                                          And it seems like the one time they did face consequences for their fake ads four years ago clearly wasn't enough [1].

                                                                                          [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24761349

                                                                                          • n_ary 9 months ago
                                                                                            It is a common trick. There are many culprits using same tricks: Gardenscape, Whiteout Survival, Frozen City, Township, Fishdom, Hero Wars and to some extent Royal Match.

                                                                                            All of these appear to enjoy a lot of downloads, so whatever tricks they are using works very effectively.

                                                                                          • htrp 9 months ago
                                                                                            a/b testing to the (local) max
                                                                                            • 9 months ago
                                                                                            • 9 months ago