How Baltic and Nordic countries are preparing for a crisis or war
48 points by CTOSian 7 months ago | 52 comments- vonnik 7 months agoThe ongoing Ukraine war is what prevents these countries from being invaded now. Winning that war by destroying Russia’s ability to produce conventional weapons, and exhausting its supply of military age men, will protect these countries and NATO for at least a decade. Which is time Europe needs to prepare.
- Retric 7 months agoNATO would already crush Russia in a purely conventional war several times over. However, posturing can be a lot cheaper than conflict.
- mathgeek 7 months agoUnfortunately it takes both (all?) sides to keep a war conventional.
- Yeul 7 months agoWe know that England and France would have crushed Hitler in 1937.
Sadly war is influenced by politics and when people want peace at any price dictators can get away with setting the world on fire.
- rayrey 7 months agoWith the new Trump admin, it would seem more feasible for Russia to go nuclear early. Unless the UK and France decide to step in, I doubt the the US nuclear umbrella would be in effect after 1/20
- Ylpertnodi 7 months ago>NATO would already crush Russia in a purely conventional war several times over. However,
.....no nato country (or alliance therein) wants to deal with the shitshow that would follow, immediately- or longterm, afterwards.
- mathgeek 7 months ago
- pessimizer 7 months ago> The ongoing Ukraine war is what prevents these countries from being invaded now.
What prevented them from being invaded before the Ukraine war?
- daliusd 7 months agoNATO
- pessimizer 7 months agoAre you sure it wasn't a complete lack of interest in invading them?
- pessimizer 7 months ago
- daliusd 7 months ago
- Retric 7 months ago
- Animats 7 months ago"The Norwegian information also talks about how to survive for three days without power"
The prepping recommendation for Norway has been increased to a week.
That's also true in the US. FEMA says to prep for a week now.[1] Used to be 72 hours. In recent large-scale floods, which are now happening in areas that did not used to have them, areas have been cut off for a week.
- mooreds 7 months agoHere's the Swedish pamphlet mentioned in the article: https://rib.msb.se/filer/pdf/30874.pdf
- Shalah 7 months ago[dead]
- bargainbot3k 7 months ago[flagged]
- nuz 7 months ago"The Norwegian information also talks about how to survive for three days without power"
I mean canned food etc is useful but you wouldn't even die from starvation if you stood outside for that amount of time.
- Maxion 7 months agoIn most of the Nordics a significant portion of the population would easily die after around 12-24 hours of no power for large parts of the year. It's very goddamned cold up here.
- SoftTalker 7 months agoIn the places where people actually live in large numbers it's not quite that severe, but yes it can get cold.
- Maxion 7 months agoOld and young children, especially those living in cities or apartments would be in real trouble if heating cut out. They might not own enough thick blankets, and do not have alternative ways of heating their home.
- Maxion 7 months ago
- SoftTalker 7 months ago
- ACS_Solver 7 months agoIt's cold here in Scandinavia. Nighttime temperatures are below freezing for half a year in a good chunk of the land. Winters are in general cold for a significant part of the population, three days without heating would be a serious danger if you don't know how to keep your home (relatively) warm in an emergency. When outside temperatures are around -15C, a house with no power can easily get cold enough to risk hypothermia. And in the winter, -30C is perfectly ordinary.
- blub 7 months agoI struggle to think of a way of keeping an entire house or apartment warm without power.
Is there an actual solution recommended by the respective governments for this or was the problem reformulated into keeping one or more persons warm instead?
- LinuxBender 7 months agoHome design helps. I'm in a very old earth bermed home and even if the temperature outside is -25F (-31.3C) the coldest it gets if I don't have the heat on is about 42F (5.5C) and that's just because my windows are really old and the door weather strip is decomposing. If I throw a few logs in the wood stove it can get too hot. I doubt there are many earth bermed apartments however. I would probably just put on my snow pants, jacket, hat. Snow rated clothing make a big difference. That is what I would stock up on along with other layers underneath. If I had to sleep outside I would add a tarp, a lot of rocks and some paracord. Not saying it would be fun.
- ACS_Solver 7 months agoYou can't keep it warm but you can conserve heat as much as possible. You're supposed to add extra insulation by covering the windows with blankets, pick a space in the house where everyone will be and additionally insulate that main space from the rest of the house, use candles as it's safe to.
Our houses are generally quite well insulated due to the climate. Government preparedness info says a modern house (~15 years old) can go four full days in -20C weather before inside temperatures drop to 5C. A typical 70s row house would drop to that after 48 hours but a 70s brick house can drop that low after just 24 hours. So depending on your house and location, the specific plan for a 3-day outage can range from "you'll be fine as long as you have blankets" to "you need a fireplace or other heater with fuel for at least a few hours a day".
- askonomm 7 months agoI figure we'd all just go to the country side, where people still have houses with chimneys that use wood for heat, and hope we fit.
- tim333 7 months agoI don't know about houses but I've camped a while in those temperatures and with heavy down sleeping bags, suits and insulated boots it's fine. I never really felt cold.
- sixtyj 7 months agoWe have winter sleeping bags for the whole family. Although we don’t live in Northern Europe it is good to have them at home.
- LinuxBender 7 months ago
- blub 7 months ago
- sebtron 7 months ago> you wouldn't even die from starvation if you stood outside for that amount of time
Right, you would die of hypothermia much earlier
- mantas 7 months agoStanding outside wouldn’t work for a good portion of the year…
- potato3732842 7 months agoThey're not worried about you dying in five days. They're worried about breakdown of law and order.
- danlugo92 7 months ago[flagged]
- Shalah 7 months ago[dead]
- Shalah 7 months ago
- Maxion 7 months ago
- mongol 7 months agoWhat we really need to become as prepared as we once was is mandatory conscription. It used to cover almost all men, today I think it covers 7-8 percent of those in the right age. Without having seen the defense from the inside, it must feel foreign and abstract. But it concerns us all and should not be something for a just a few.
- asdff 7 months agoFor a modern war in europe? Seems to me you need air superiority more than you need warm bodies with three weeks rifle training. And not much more the nordics can do for that considering they are allied with the US already and would allow them to use all ports and air strips.
The ukraine situation is a little different specifically because the US doesn’t want to destroy all russian air forces in a day like in desert storm and escalate things further.
- bpodgursky 7 months agoNATO does not have unlimited, or even especially deep, precision munition depth. There is absolutely a need for warm bodies manning anti-tank, artillery, and now FPV drone (10-20km range), positions.
- bjelkeman-again 7 months agoConscription in Sweden is 9-12 months, depending on role. In 2023 it was 6000 men and women. Much fewer than when I did my service in the 80s, about 35 000/year then. The length is similar though.
The European defense in general hasn’t switched to drone based defense at the same level that Ukraine seems to have done relatively successfully.
- 7 months ago
- mongol 7 months agoMy point is that you need it for mental preparedness.
- baybal2 7 months ago[dead]
- bpodgursky 7 months ago
- create-username 7 months agoIn mandatory conscription armies, soldiers deliberately miss the shots because nobody wants to suffer from remorse
- mathgeek 7 months agoWhile I am firmly of the belief that volunteer armies are preferable to conscription, I would wager the number of conscripted folks willing to shoot at someone invading their homeland is high enough for this to not matter.
- mathgeek 7 months ago
- Throw4884958 7 months ago[flagged]
- graemep 7 months agoIn most of Europe people can legally buy alcohol at 18. Even in the relatively puritanical UK a 16 year can be served alcohol with a meal in a restaurant. The age limit for drinking alcohol in private settings is MUCH lower.
On you main point, physical strength is clearly still important for some roles. Women are also more vulnerable in some wars where rape is used as a weapon or war (although men are not immune). On the other hand, in general, I agree with you that women should be trained and conscripted if men are. Not being as good at all roles, does not mean they cannot be as good at some.
- Throw4884958 7 months ago[flagged]
- Throw4884958 7 months ago
- Epa095 7 months agoIt covers women in at least Sweeden and Norway, and Denmark is also moving in that direction.
Makes sense, we are not fighting wars with swords and clubs anymore.
- pletnes 7 months agoYou train everyone at 18, but send them to war when the war comes - when people are 25, 30, or 43.
- Yeul 7 months ago18 year old boys are literally stupid enough to charge a machine gun nest.
- graemep 7 months ago
- StefanBatory 7 months agoAs long as it's equal and not sexist.
Why should I have to sacrifice a year or two of my life being bullied and abused, while in my country women get to retire five years earlier?
- kelseyfrog 7 months agoBiology
- StefanBatory 7 months agoAnd in which case a society that accepts this is bound to open Pandora's box.
- StefanBatory 7 months ago
- kelseyfrog 7 months ago
- asdff 7 months ago