Facebook ban on discussing Linux?

874 points by rogerthis 5 months ago | 388 comments
  • perihelions 5 months ago
    • polotics 5 months ago
      I do confirm that i explicitly tested this with my super unused facebook account, just stating that i was testing restrictions on talking about Linux, the text was: """I don't often (or ever) post anything on Facebook, but when I do, it's to check if they really, as announced on hckrnews, are restricting discussing Linux. So here's a few links to trigger that: https://www.qubes-os.org/downloads/ ... https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/""" and indeed within seconds I got the following warning: """ We removed your post The post may use misleading links or content to trick people to visit, or stay on, a website. """. This is one massive wow considering how much Facebook runs on Linux.
      • krisoft 5 months ago
        A user who never posts anything suddenly posting a message containing urls might in itself be a signal that something is weird. It would be an interestint test to post something not linux related and see how that fares.
        • miningape 5 months ago
          No this is a supported / common format on facebook.

          Source: I work building an SMM tool, and Facebook Link posts constantly need our attention

          • taurknaut 5 months ago
            > A user who never posts anything suddenly posting a message containing urls might in itself be a signal that something is weird.

            ...on a social media site designed to aggregate URLs?

            • Almondsetat 5 months ago
              Facebook is not designed to aggregate URLs and heavily penalizes external content
            • Vrondi 5 months ago
              Any user ever posting URLs should never ever be removed. The Web should be allowed to exist. This is utterly despicable behavior.
              • saagarjha 5 months ago
                Clearly there is content that would be unacceptable to post. Anything patently illegal, for example.
                • quesera 5 months ago
                  Insanity. Absolutely. Maybe.

                  Clearly there's a need for some kind of bad-url blocker. You don't want compromised accounts (or clueless people) sharing nefarious links to trusted friends.

                  And clearly blocking distrowatch etc is bizarre overreach. And probably not intended behaviour -- it just makes no sense.

                  The web exists just fine. Using Facebook as a front end to the web is a terrible idea though.

                  • gsich 5 months ago
                    I once posted a Youtube comment with a link. Got removed without notice. I thought it was the uploader first but no ...
                    • seattle_spring 5 months ago
                      The internet would look like the spam folder of a compromised email address. No thanks.
                      • squigz 5 months ago
                        You should know that this sort of rhetoric is both

                        a) silly, because... it's not true. Spam, phishing attempts, illegal content - all of this should be removed.

                        b) more damaging to whatever you're advocating for than you realize. You want a free web? So do I. But I'm not going to go around saying stuff like "all users should be able to post any URL at any time" and calling moderation actions "utterly despicable"

                      • rcdwealth 5 months ago
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                        • darig 5 months ago
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                        • zdp7 5 months ago
                          I just tried the same two URLs. I also got a message saying the post was removed.
                          • ashoeafoot 5 months ago
                            Relicense the kernel with license that prevents usage for dystopiadistros?
                            • tobylane 5 months ago
                              That's non-free. Quoting from https://opensource.org/osd

                              > 6. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research.

                              • jdiff 5 months ago
                                nonfree according to OSI and several other organizations. If you have strong feelings that direct you in such a way, there's no reason to hold their opinion in sacred regard. Multiple philosophies can coexist. The DFSG and the FSF's schools of thought for instance are often in conflict and yet the world keeps on spinning.

                                Your custom license built with your own philosophy will still interoperate just fine with many common open source licenses, and as a bonus for some, will ward off corporations with cautious lawyers who don't like unknown software licenses.

                                • taurknaut 5 months ago
                                  Non-open, you mean. OSI never tried to contribute to the free software movement.
                                  • robinsonb5 5 months ago
                                    Indeed. One of the most important freedoms you grant to others by using an Open Source license is the freedom to do something you might not like.
                                  • Propelloni 5 months ago
                                    What is a "dystopiadistro"? It's not like that I don't know the individual words, but combined? What is "dystopiadistro" supposed to mean?
                                    • ashoeafoot 5 months ago
                                      Companies that actively decay society for profit? PS: Compamies that support change away from lawbased society also violate the license by virtue of it being based on laws and rules
                                    • froh 5 months ago
                                      relicensing needs a cla.
                                    • amatecha 5 months ago
                                      I'd be curious if it's blocked if someone links just debian.org . I can definitely see a [totally overzealous] "security filter" blocking Qubes, but Debian is one of the most popular Linux distros in the world, so that would be especially ridiculous.
                                      • richrichardsson 5 months ago
                                        Opposite anecdata point: posted a link to DistroWatch and mentioned Linux without issue.
                                        • lemper 5 months ago
                                          giving you another confirmation, mate. zuck removed my post about qubeos.
                                        • boomboomsubban 5 months ago
                                          Facebook has been blocking distrowatch at least part of the time for three years now, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29529312

                                          I've been perplexed for years, I wonder if it went unnoticed all this time or they reverted then reimplement the ban.

                                          • loeg 5 months ago
                                            It's probably a recurrence of the same issue.

                                            If your domain links to content that AVs flag as malware, it gets blocked on FB. Distrowatch is likely uniquely susceptible to this because they're constantly linking to novel, 3rd-party tarballs (via the "Latest Packages" column).

                                            In this case, it was the Privoxy 4.0.0 release from the 18th. You can see it linked in this Jan 19 snapshot of the site: https://web.archive.org/web/20250119125004/https://distrowat...

                                          • ulrikrasmussen 5 months ago
                                            It's either intentional, which would be puzzling and unsettling, or it's a bug which has gone unnoticed. In any case it is proof that big tech is in no shape to take on the responsibility for moderating discourse on the internet. This reminds me of the bug that falls into a typewriter in the beginning of the movie "Brazil" which causes a spelling error and the arrest and execution of a random innocent person. Granted, this type of automated banning without any ability to involve a real human is not costing any lives (yet), but I am increasingly worried about how big tech is becoming a Kafkaesque lawnmower. One thing is to deliberately censor speech that you do not like, another is to design a system where innocent and important speech is silently censored and noone in charge even notices.
                                            • dmurray 5 months ago
                                              > It's either intentional, which would be puzzling and unsettling, or it's a bug which has gone unnoticed.

                                              I've long believed that a large part of technological evil comes from bugs which were introduced innocuously, but intentionally not fixed.

                                              Like, your ISP wouldn't intentionally design a system to steal your money, but they would build a low-quality billing system and then prioritise fixing systematic bugs that cause errors in the customer's favour, while leaving the ones that cause overbilling.

                                              This could easily be the same on Facebook - this got swept up in a false positive and then someone decided it's not a good one to fix.

                                              • sixothree 5 months ago
                                                There's a rumor that an unnamed ISP did exactly that - overcharged a large portion of its customers due to a software bug. Then decided to not fix the issue instead relying on customers to call support and have the charge fixed.
                                              • Neonlicht 5 months ago
                                                This has been going on for years. There are no humans to review your ban appeal. Tech companies don't want to spend money on customer service.

                                                And what are you going to do about it? Get into a lawyer slap fight with a foreign trillion dollar corporation?

                                            • loeg 5 months ago
                                              Distrowatch was blocked for linking to an AV-flagged privoxy 4.0.0 tarball. The same kind of anti-malware blocking you'd expect for a mass-market, non-technical audience. Nothing to do with "speech" or Linux in general.

                                              Some context: https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/site-support/26448/

                                              • amatecha 5 months ago
                                                Well, that doesn't explain why someone else in this discussion had their post removed, as there was no mention of distrowatch: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42840143
                                                • ozim 5 months ago
                                                  I guess filtering is level of: "My 11-year-old son keeps talking about this Linux thing with his computer. What is Linux? Is it a hacking tool? Should I be worried?"
                                                  • loeg 5 months ago
                                                    Probably entirely unrelated to the distrowatch thing.
                                                    • amatecha 5 months ago
                                                      Who knows? The article says "I've tried to appeal the ban and was told the next day that Linux-related material is staying on the cybersecurity filter." -- presumably we could ask Distrowatch to share the exact wording of the response they got back, but the fact FB apparently responded in such a way suggests it wasn't a filter specific to Distrowatch.
                                                  • archon810 5 months ago
                                                    On another note, Sourceforge just removes the malware flag, but did they actually check anything or just went with the provided explanation without any concrete details? If I hijacked some software and got caught, I'd act nonchalantly like this as well and hope it'll blow over without anyone noticing.
                                                    • loeg 5 months ago
                                                      As far as I know, they didn't check anything. (And neither have I -- no comment on whether this is an AV true positive or false positive.)

                                                      Here's VirusTotal on the tarball (note Chrome blocks its download, for the same reason): https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/c08e2ba0049307017bf9d8a6...

                                                      Nimda was a Windows malware from 2001. It seems unlikely that would be a meaningful attack vector for a compromised privoxy in 2025. But again, I have not investigated it.

                                                    • bjoli 5 months ago
                                                      I had my post removed a couple of weeks ago for linking to aeon desktop (immutable opensuse).
                                                      • Vaslo 5 months ago
                                                        Thank you for providing this, it seemed a little clickbaity. Even far less technical companies run some things in Linux so seems weird they’d ban Linux talk in general.
                                                      • oneeyedpigeon 5 months ago
                                                        > Starting on January 19, 2025 Facebook's internal policy makers decided that Linux is malware and labelled groups associated with Linux as being "cybersecurity threats".

                                                        That's quite the statement to make without any source to back it up; I wonder what the evidence for this is.

                                                        • dec0dedab0de 5 months ago
                                                          I assumed that part was conjecture. However, if you define “internal policy makers” broadly from the users perspective, then it’s provably true from the result.

                                                          I get that it is worded like it was people in a boardroom making a decision after having a debate. However an overworked admin, or an AI Moderator could just as easily be lumped together as “internal policy makers” from the users perspective.

                                                          • lofenfew 5 months ago
                                                            They are the source. A journo could write an article and mention distrowatch as where they got their information from. If you don't trust them - great, you can do your own research.

                                                            > I wonder what the evidence for it is

                                                            Maybe "Any posts mentioning DistroWatch and multiple groups associated with Linux and Linux discussions have either been shut down or had many of their posts removed" and "We've been hearing all week from readers who say they can no longer post about Linux on Facebook or share links to DistroWatch. Some people have reported their accounts have been locked or limited for posting about Linux"

                                                            What do you think evidence consists of if not that?

                                                            • valicord 5 months ago
                                                              The evidence shows that Facebook is blocking Linux related posts, while the initial "policy makers decided" claim is significantly stronger and is not supported by anything. Much more obvious explanation is that some buggy ML classifier has added the distrowatch website to the spam list which triggers automated enforcement without any policy maker involvement.
                                                              • anigbrowl 5 months ago
                                                                The purpose of a system is what it does. If this behavior is happening because nobody with authority cares to do anything about it, that's also a decision. I never understand why people rush to make excuses for these huge companies awash in resources with no real accountability or customer support.
                                                                • jorams 5 months ago
                                                                  If "some buggy ML classifier" is allowed to make decisions that trigger broad enforcement, that classifier is, for all intents and purposes, a policy maker. The claim made by the article is somewhat broad relative to the evidence presented, but whether policy decisions are automated or not doesn't really matter.
                                                                  • bee_rider 5 months ago
                                                                    They have a screenshot of Facebook reviewing the post and deciding not to restore it, so I guess it isn’t just a buggy ML classifier (although it could be a buggy ML classifier combined with a human that doesn’t feel able to overturn it).
                                                                    • ghssds 5 months ago
                                                                      It's to easy to hide behind a computer to avoid responsibilities. "It's not my fault, the computer did it!" is a bad excuse. Computers don't have agency but people do. Anything a computer someone own do is one's fault. One had the choice to not boot it. One had the choice to not buy it.
                                                                      • blasphemers 5 months ago
                                                                        The evidence only shows that fb is blocking distrowatch links
                                                                      • nwienert 5 months ago
                                                                        Three claims are there:

                                                                        - Facebook is censoring this content

                                                                        - They decided Linux is malware

                                                                        - They label groups associated with Linux as "cybersecurity threats"

                                                                        The first one they seem to give evidence for the second two seem to be assumptions.

                                                                        • skissane 5 months ago
                                                                          > - Facebook is censoring this content

                                                                          I’m surprised we haven’t yet heard from the “it isn’t censorship if a private company is doing it” crowd in this conversation

                                                                          • onli 5 months ago
                                                                            There is a screenshot in the article of the appeal, confirming 1 and 2. Three follows logically.
                                                                          • MrDresden 5 months ago
                                                                            I thoroughly dislike Facebook as much as the next person, but none of what you quoted constitutes evidence for a ban on discussing Linux on the platform.

                                                                            Reading the post, it sounds like this may rather be because of incorrect categorization of DistroWatch and links to it than an outright ban on Linux discussion. So yet another issue with Facebook's content moderation methods.

                                                                            • taurknaut 5 months ago
                                                                              Does the distinction matter?
                                                                            • thekevan 5 months ago
                                                                              That's circular logic and none of it is evidence.

                                                                              "A bad thing is happening and the evidence of it happening is that I said it's happening."

                                                                              By the way, I love DistroWatch and do think FB is messing with their posts. But there's no evidence to show if it's a new policy, a glitch in the moderation or an internal screw up.

                                                                              • Dylan16807 5 months ago
                                                                                That's not circular. They are citing sources. The evidence is the direct experience of the sources.

                                                                                If you don't believe them, that's a different objection.

                                                                                And glitch policies are policies if they're getting enforced.

                                                                            • amatecha 5 months ago
                                                                              Probably this: "I've tried to appeal the ban and was told the next day that Linux-related material is staying on the cybersecurity filter." (from the OP) .. Of course, it would have helped if the post author quoted FB's response so we could judge that for ourselves.
                                                                              • buyucu 5 months ago
                                                                                the evidence is that facebook is blocking this content.
                                                                                • paulnpace 5 months ago
                                                                                  [flagged]
                                                                                  • oneeyedpigeon 5 months ago
                                                                                    I can't speak for anyone else, it just seems that statement is a very specific accusation with nothing backing it up. I'm curious, that's all. It is very much possible that there's some evidence of policy makers discussing this, or even a public statement; nothing to do with "proving a negative".
                                                                                  • soneil 5 months ago
                                                                                    Surely this is entirely the opposite of proving a negative? It's a direct, testable, provable claim.
                                                                                    • jsnell 5 months ago
                                                                                      How is this asking to prove a negative?
                                                                                  • GuB-42 5 months ago
                                                                                    Ok, what's the true story?

                                                                                    It is obviously allowed to discuss Linux. There is plenty of discussion about Linux on Facebook, including some about the recent "ban".

                                                                                    My guess is that some automated scanner found something wrong about the linked page. Maybe there is some link to a "hacking"-oriented distro, maybe some torrents, some dubious comment, etc... Probably a false positive, it happens.

                                                                                    • mr_toad 5 months ago
                                                                                      Probably some jobsworth decided that free software = piracy.

                                                                                      I knew a company that leapt to the same conclusion regarding GitHub.

                                                                                      • umanwizard 5 months ago
                                                                                        Meta is one of the biggest contributors to free software in the world. They certainly don’t believe that it’s equivalent to piracy. If your guess is indeed what happened, it will be corrected by higher-ups soon.
                                                                                        • graemep 5 months ago
                                                                                          It is perfectly possible that someone at a lower level, especially a non-technical person, would believe that. Moderators are not going to be highly paid and skilled people.

                                                                                          It has to get to the attention of higher ups.

                                                                                          The one time I have reported a comment to FB, it was horrible racism (said "do not interbreed with [group x] because they are [evil - not sure of exact wording]" and got a reply saying that it did not violate community standards.

                                                                                        • BlueTemplar 5 months ago
                                                                                          But at this point, in 2025, it's perfectly reasonable for GAFAMs (and other Russian/Chinese/USian infocoms) to be blocked (ideally at the state level).

                                                                                          And particularly in the context of work primarily about communication or computing : having an official Xitter account for a journalist or a GitHub account for a software developer is like promoting a brand of cigarettes or opiates by a doctor - a violation of professional deontology.

                                                                                        • emmelaich 5 months ago
                                                                                          The pic accompanying mentions openKylin. Kylin is China's Unix, formerly based on FreeBSD, now Linux/Ubuntu.

                                                                                          I presume that it is used for launching hacks, but even so discussion should not be banned.

                                                                                          Just makes me wonder if DistroWatch is telling the whole story.

                                                                                          • thephyber 5 months ago
                                                                                            “ Just makes me wonder if DistroWatch is telling the whole story.”

                                                                                            Nobody outside of Facebook can possibly know the whole story. Hell, most people within Facebook can’t know, either.

                                                                                            Are you suspecting that distrowatch knows more about the context than they are letting on?

                                                                                            • emmelaich 5 months ago
                                                                                              They know more than us, by definition. They could do more analysis and not be so dramatic. I'm not alleging anything nefarious.
                                                                                          • indymike 5 months ago
                                                                                            Kali is one example. That said Kali is not a bad thing.
                                                                                            • quesera 5 months ago
                                                                                              We are obligated to have an external auditor run PCI DSS penetration testing and network segmentation testing every year.

                                                                                              Their second request (after a network diagram) is always to create an EC2 instance running Kali.

                                                                                              Which, honestly, confuses me a bit -- all of the packages are available in AL or Ubuntu, so why do they care? I don't know, and I guess I don't care enough to ask. Just give me the attestation document please. :)

                                                                                              • alp1n3_eth 5 months ago
                                                                                                My assumption is it's for reducing the number of things they need to configure, and therefore troubleshoot.

                                                                                                It's easy to say "The newest Kali release is the distro the org will use" instead of "Use whatever Linux flavor you want and here's an install script that may or may not work or break depending on your distro and/or distro's version".

                                                                                                Them spending time troubleshooting a setup that's out-of-spec is still time billed, so it's better for their customers for everything to roll smoothly too. They also just want to execute their job well, not spend time debugging script / build issues.

                                                                                                • maple3142 5 months ago
                                                                                                  From my experience, it is obviously not all the packages in Kali Repo will be in Ubuntu (or other regular distro) Repl. Lots of specific pentesting tool can be installed with just `apt install ...` in Kali, which make it a lot more convenient when you need to do pentesting.
                                                                                                  • indymike 5 months ago
                                                                                                    Out of the box experience and some extra scripts :-)
                                                                                                    • zblevins 5 months ago
                                                                                                      Think about all the time saved not having to do sudo or su.
                                                                                                      • bluedino 5 months ago
                                                                                                        They don't know how to use Linux they just know Kali
                                                                                                      • emmelaich 5 months ago
                                                                                                        pic mentions openKylin, I suppose Kylin is a bit like Kali?

                                                                                                        Likewise, discussion should be allowed.

                                                                                                        The actual title of this story is literally not believable if you take the most generic meaning of discussion and Linux.

                                                                                                        I'd go even further: I don't believe that anyone could believe that the title is believable.

                                                                                                        • indymike 5 months ago
                                                                                                          It is believable if you've experienced anything to do with moderation on Facebook. It's a dystopian experience that defies any ordinary expectation of normalcy.
                                                                                                    • everdrive 5 months ago
                                                                                                      Somewhat ironic given that actual linux packages are mirrored there.

                                                                                                      http://www.fedora.mirror.facebook.net/

                                                                                                      • bluedino 5 months ago
                                                                                                        Reminds me of when they do 'firewall updates' at work, and many of the common open-source repositories/hosting etc are blocked.

                                                                                                        I understand than some malicious software may use things like curl, but it's also annoying to have to re-create the same ticket and submit to internal IT, and then if someone working on the ticket hasn't done this before, they close it, we have to have a meeting about why we need access to that site...

                                                                                                        • devnullbrain 5 months ago
                                                                                                          The inverse isn't tolerated. If you're a software developer, you get tested for IT knowledge with phishing emails. Yet in IT it's perfectly normal to have an ignorance of the core needs of the developers - and computing itself - that results in reduced productivity or shadow IT systems.

                                                                                                          It's not an exaggeration to say I've experienced it at every employer I've had.

                                                                                                          • Sohcahtoa82 5 months ago
                                                                                                            I was on a penetration testing team at a large corp that doesn't specialize in cybersecurity and I downloaded Metasploit and about 15 minutes later an IT person came up to my desk to talk about the malware I just downloaded. I had to walk him to my manager to get him to understand what it was and why it was okay for me to download it.
                                                                                                            • userbinator 5 months ago
                                                                                                              Remember the old saying, "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission".
                                                                                                              • psunavy03 5 months ago
                                                                                                                Was reading a news article the other day that described wget as a "hacking tool" and about rolled my eyes into the back of my head.
                                                                                                              • nailer 5 months ago
                                                                                                                Last I checked (2008) Facebook Linux was indeed a Fedora derivative.
                                                                                                                • homebrewer 5 months ago
                                                                                                                  Their OS is based on CentOS Stream, I think they're one of the very few major organizations that stuck with CentOS post-Stream and did not switch to something else entirely.
                                                                                                                  • xor-eax-eax 5 months ago
                                                                                                                    Untrue, it's purist startup people and some ISVs who believe that Alma or Rocky are the somehow "better".

                                                                                                                    Meta runs 10M+ CentOS 9 Stream boxes migrating to 10 eventually.

                                                                                                                    Cent has shorter security update availability latency and they're shipped more consistently. The benefit with Rocky and Alma is double the lifecycle time and arguably better governance, unfortunately though they're both tiny operations that suffer from a narrow bus factor, are always playing catch-up, drifting away from RHEL compatibility, and are the definition of fragmentation.

                                                                                                                    If you need RHEL-ish for servers, use CentOS Stream. It's not great for desktop. Use Fedora or something more LTS for that.

                                                                                                                  • somanyphotons 5 months ago
                                                                                                                    I think in 2014 era it was centos
                                                                                                                    • loeg 5 months ago
                                                                                                                      Fedora and CentOS are both used.
                                                                                                                    • Fnoord 5 months ago
                                                                                                                      Woah, Facebook is hosting malware.

                                                                                                                      Seriously though, I'm curious (have no account): are you able to post that link on Facebook?

                                                                                                                    • kazinator 5 months ago
                                                                                                                      Didn't Zuck recently announce that he's getting rid of fact checkers, on the pretext that the parties hired to do fact checking are biased and introduce censorship and unfair false positives that get accounts shut down?

                                                                                                                      Was it just a cost reduction: fact checking takes effort and those checkers have to be paid? With the result being situations like this?

                                                                                                                      • notfed 5 months ago
                                                                                                                        Yes, which makes this claim more extraordinary. (And to be fair, I don't think there's extraordinary evidence presented here.)
                                                                                                                        • maeil 5 months ago
                                                                                                                          It doesn't; it makes the ban more likely if anything. See how on certain topics the censorship immediately increased as Musk took over Twitter.
                                                                                                                        • the-grump 5 months ago
                                                                                                                          Their phrasing was "mainstream discourse" wouldn't be censored.

                                                                                                                          I guess Linux needs to go mainstream first.

                                                                                                                          • DoctorOW 5 months ago
                                                                                                                            I'm pretty sure we're entering the year of the Linux desktop :)
                                                                                                                            • giancarlostoro 5 months ago
                                                                                                                              I've been using Linux as my full time desktop since 2022 now, having used it at a prior employer as my main OS for dev work for about 6. Windows has hit my limit, I only use it if an employer provides it.
                                                                                                                          • NikkiA 5 months ago
                                                                                                                            > Was it just a cost reduction

                                                                                                                            No, it was clearly an attempt to court Trump, unfortunately 'not enough ass kissing, yet' according to the trump team.

                                                                                                                          • germandiago 5 months ago
                                                                                                                            There is no such thing as unbiased information. So FWIW, I think fact checking is really just a fight for censorship. Official lies and half truths instead of lies from everywhere intermixed with truths.

                                                                                                                            There are so many ways to do it wrong even if you tag info as true or fake and in principle you do it with good intention. For example it was the case that certain information was tagged as fake and when claimed for a correction the administrators "could not do anything" (Spain cases researched by Joan Planas by doing requests himself personally for the biggest official agency in Spain, called Newtral, which is intimately tied to the Socialist Party in Spain... really, the name makes me laugh, let us call war peace etc. like in 1984). But they were way faster in doing it in the other direction or often found excuses to clearly favor certain interests.

                                                                                                                            Now put this in the context of an election... uh... complicated topic, but we all minimally awake people know what this is about...

                                                                                                                            • kazinator 5 months ago
                                                                                                                              Your point doesn't hold together because it seems to be conflating fact checking with bias elimination.

                                                                                                                              They are obviously different and mostly separate.

                                                                                                                              A presentation of facts can be biased.

                                                                                                                              E.g. a news agency can have a characteristic political slant, yet not make up facts to suit that narrative.

                                                                                                                              When a bias is severe, such that it leads to behaviors like concealing important facts in order to manipulate the correct understanding of a situation, then fact checking can find a problem with it.

                                                                                                                              • germandiago 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                We have repeteadly found fake news in the fact checking as well as official truths in the case of Spain and I am pretty sure the pattern is replicated in other places. The funds that bought the newspapers, etc. in Spain are all the same around Europe.

                                                                                                                                They might not be the same, but they are interrelated sonce this is a fight to monopolize the truth and bias and lies are what you end up seeing. Many times they say sorry and get away with it,, but they are not saying sorry: they are working for some interests.

                                                                                                                                What happened to Biden's son in Ukraine. They totally disappeared before an election, for example. Why? Why it did not get through and went viral? I do not give a hell from these agencies. They are everything but seeking the truth. Yes, for some irrelevant info they might be ok but we all know who they work for.

                                                                                                                                Remember part of the leakages that Musk showed when he bought Twitter also with the mail exchanges of what to censor. Only a retarded would believe those agencies at this point.

                                                                                                                                Not to say fake news do not exist though.

                                                                                                                              • voidUpdate 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                whats the bias on "1+1=2"?
                                                                                                                                • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                  • alt227 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                    Bias towards base 10 numbering? How did you know 1+1 wasnt wanted to be calculated in binary?
                                                                                                                                    • beeflet 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                      the decision to include the information or not include it in the discussion in the first place, regardless of whether it's objective information
                                                                                                                                      • germandiago 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                        I was going to say something but the other two replies illustrate well enough things, especially the one of what information to hide or show. Others: where a headline goes, how fast information is corrected, what is the protocol to correct and if that protocol has a neutral appearance that favors someone more than others.

                                                                                                                                        In fact I believe neutrality does not exist as such. No problem with it, objective information and multiple sources with their biases are ok to get an idea as long as facts are shown. But an official truth? Come on, what is that? It is dangerously similar to a dictatorship to have the monopoly of truth.

                                                                                                                                    • breakitmakeit 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                      Kowtowing to the king
                                                                                                                                    • __MatrixMan__ 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                      I recall a headline from (checks notes) 2014. Linux users are extremists according to the NSA (http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/nsa-linux-journal-extrem...).

                                                                                                                                      I imagine something about that caused certain lists to be populated in certain ways, and no linux user cares enough about Facebook to help them correct the problem.

                                                                                                                                      • 4 months ago
                                                                                                                                        • hansvm 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                          I cared tiny bit. I even went out and bought a phone so that I could "prove I was a real person" or whatever to try to make a FB account. Account creation failed, my IP was banned, and I just blocked every FB domain and haven't looked back.
                                                                                                                                          • kouru225 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                            Ah shit I guess they’ve been storing my browsing history then…
                                                                                                                                          • nu2ycombinator 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                            Interesting. Same Facebook, refuses take action on reports submitted on fake accounts created to spam people and harassment videos.
                                                                                                                                            • lukaslalinsky 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                              Yeah, I was really surprised by this. Last year, I reported a number of people, who were trying to scam me (via Messenger messages related to Marketplace listings). Not only did Facebook did not see anything wrong with the accounts and scammy messages, I was flagged for sending useless reports.
                                                                                                                                              • guappa 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                I suspect that the report button doesn't actually cause any human to be involved in the process.
                                                                                                                                                • swiftcoder 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                  it (used to) in aggregate trigger human review (i.e. if many people report the same post). However, the humans who reviewed it were underpaid, overworked, and unlikely to have any context, so the output was not necessarily better than the automated system...
                                                                                                                                              • fortran77 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                Their filters are comically bad. I belong to a Selectric Typewriter enthusiats group and we keep having to re-word things so they don't go into a black hole. Typewriter parts like "operational shaft" or "type ball" or even brand names of gun cleaners and lubricants that are popular with typewriter folks will cause a post not to appear.
                                                                                                                                                • emmelaich 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                  Oh just stop it you, I feel my loins tingling.
                                                                                                                                                • nottorp 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                  I think they're wrong about the policy. It's more likely that the policy is "let's run the moderation bots unattended to save costs" and is actually site agnostic.

                                                                                                                                                  It's just some "AI" hallucinating.

                                                                                                                                                  • notfed 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                    Seems antithetical to Zuckerberg's recent "More Speech and Fewer Mistakes" announcement.
                                                                                                                                                    • im3w1l 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                      To be fair whenever something radically changes the risk of a regression is higher than normal.
                                                                                                                                                  • germandiago 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                    Well, my confidence in the owner of this company is as high as... so I am not surprised that if he is paid (I have no idea this os the case in this very situation), he will no wonder do what the money dictates without any consideration whatsoever. Did anyone see the ridiculous change he made after years of selling (at least in Europe) fact checking, following censorship and teaming up, the scandal selling data to influence an election before. I do not expect anything nice from this leadership. That is why I stopped using Facebook years ago as much as I could.
                                                                                                                                                    • insane_dreamer 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                      So this is what Zuck meant when he said Meta was "getting back to its roots"? (And I thought he was talking about reviving Facemash)
                                                                                                                                                      • mindcrime 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                        I'm not convinced this is intentional. I think their auto-moderation stuff is just buggy lately. To illustrate part of why I say that:

                                                                                                                                                        Yesterday I tried to submit a link to a Youtube video of the Testament song "Native Blood". Nothing terribly controversial about that, and I'm nearly 100% sure I've posted that song before with no problems. But it kept getting denied with some "link not allowed because blah, blah" error.

                                                                                                                                                        So is "Native Blood" banned on FB? Well, I tried a link to a different video of the same song, and was able to submit it just fine. This feels like a bug to me, and I wouldn't be surprised if similar bugs were interfering with other people trying to post stuff.

                                                                                                                                                        Granted that's just speculation so take this for what it's worth.

                                                                                                                                                        • Igrom 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                          Surely that's the result of a rogue moderator's overreach.
                                                                                                                                                          • rnd0 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                            I attempted to post the distrowatch link to my feed and it was blocked as 'spam'.

                                                                                                                                                            That seems pretty automated to me.

                                                                                                                                                            • not2b 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                              Their "moderators" are bots, not humans, so it seems that the bots have "decided" that Linux-related links are malware or something.
                                                                                                                                                              • blast 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                Or some overly optimistic attempt at AI moderation.
                                                                                                                                                                • jdxcode 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                  I agree, overzealousness sounds like the most likely reason for this.

                                                                                                                                                                  > Starting on January 19, 2025 Facebook's internal policy makers decided that Linux is malware and labelled groups associated with Linux as being "cybersecurity threats".

                                                                                                                                                                  The author gives no evidence to back up on this claim.

                                                                                                                                                                  • paulnpace 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                    > The author gives no evidence to back up on this claim.

                                                                                                                                                                    How can one provide evidence that something is not being displayed on a website? Isn't this, like, a formal fallacy, or something?

                                                                                                                                                                    > We've been hearing all week from readers who say they can no longer post about Linux on Facebook or share links to DistroWatch. Some people have reported their accounts have been locked or limited for posting about Linux.

                                                                                                                                                                    • fau 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                      You've implied it's impossible to give such evidence and then you've immediately proved yourself wrong by giving it.

                                                                                                                                                                      But anyway, they're not asking for evidence that something isn't being displayed. They're asking for evidence that 'Starting on January 19, 2025 Facebook's internal policy makers decided that Linux is malware and labelled groups associated with Linux as being "cybersecurity threats"'.

                                                                                                                                                                    • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                      > I agree, overzealousness sounds like the most likely reason for this.

                                                                                                                                                                      Who was overzealous if not one or more internal policy makers?

                                                                                                                                                                      • bagels 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                        Machine learning algorithms? Someone hacked Facebook to block Linux? So, there are other options besides overzealous policy makers.
                                                                                                                                                                  • userbinator 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                    Like the others have mentioned, I don't think this is anything more sinister than AI moderation gone wild.
                                                                                                                                                                    • amatecha 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                      I'd argue that automated ""AI""-driven moderation is actually more sinister than a human being deciding it. Censorship and control over communication by automated processes should be held to a very high standard (and probably regulated, I'd think). From IBM in 1979: "A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision." ( https://web.archive.org/web/20221216204215/https://twitter.c... )
                                                                                                                                                                      • hn_acc1 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                        Yeah, these days it's basically the opposite: since a computer making a decision means we (in the C-suite) can't be held accountable, ALL decisions should be made by computer..
                                                                                                                                                                  • yuvalr1 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe it is about time that we stop relying on closed gardens, censored and managed on a whim, and start reclaiming our internet and freedom back, publishing in open platforms?
                                                                                                                                                                    • BlueTemplar 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                      Open platforms are still subject to all of this, the only thing they give is that you don't need to create an account to see the contents of a link.

                                                                                                                                                                      Avoid platforms altogether.

                                                                                                                                                                    • rglover 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                      This is the trouble with automation. It's clear this isn't a malicious post, it just matched some keywords their moderation bot identified as such.

                                                                                                                                                                      I think a lot of the censorship problems would be resolved if they just shut the bots off and relied on user flagging. Does that require a lot more people? Sure. But the long-run result would be far more people would use and trust these networks (covering the revenue of hiring moderators). I know I'd be a lot happier if there was a thinking human deciding my fate than a random script that only a few people know the inner-workings of.

                                                                                                                                                                      As-is, it seems like a lot of these social networks are just shooting themselves in the foot just to avoid costs and get a false sense of control over the problem.

                                                                                                                                                                      • maybesomaybenot 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                        Um, no. I don't want to see pics of NSFL gore before the userbase has had a chance to remove them. Which is what most moderators spend time removing from FB, to the point where it psychologically traumatizes them.
                                                                                                                                                                        • rglover 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                          You don't have to. That's actually a place where automation could help. You could just use image detection and auto-tag stuff as to what you think it contains. Then, have a list of sensitive tags that are automatically blurred out in the feed (and let users customize the list as they see fit).

                                                                                                                                                                          If it's something trending towards illegal, toss it into an "emergency" queue for moderators to hand-verify and don't make it visible until it's been checked.

                                                                                                                                                                          So in your example, if someone uploads war imagery, it would be tagged as "war," "violence," "gore" and be auto-blurred for users. That doesn't mean the post or account needs to be outright nuked, just treated differently from SFW stuff.

                                                                                                                                                                          • notfed 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                            Those are subjective clarifications, and so will differ between each person. And models are pre-trained to recognize these classifications.

                                                                                                                                                                            Since you mentioned war, I'm reminded of Black Mirror episode "Men Against Fire", where an army of soldiers have eye implants that cause them to visually see enemy soldiers as unsightly. (My point being this is effectively what Facebook can do.)

                                                                                                                                                                            • maybesomaybenot 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                              You assume automation solves the problem. If it did, Facebook wouldn't be hiring close to 100,000 humans to inspect content.
                                                                                                                                                                            • BlueTemplar 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                              Is there really no legal way to go after gore posters (in spaces banning gore) ?

                                                                                                                                                                              There should be - after all, this is akin to graffiti, which is typically fined.

                                                                                                                                                                              What is not acceptable, is a platform creating a paralegal environment.

                                                                                                                                                                          • BryanLunduke 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                            No, Facebook is Not Censoring "Linux", Only "DistroWatch".

                                                                                                                                                                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOdMTS6XVu4

                                                                                                                                                                            • paulnpace 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                              I'm not watching a 20 minute video on the topic, but there is a user in an HN comment[1] stating links to debian.org and qubes-os.org were removed by facebook.

                                                                                                                                                                              [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42840143

                                                                                                                                                                              • tored 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                Thus Facebook is not censoring Linux discussions or Linux content, what DistroWatch claimed, it blocks linking to what Facebook deems as malicious links (correctly or incorrectly), something a lot of software does these days.

                                                                                                                                                                                This is what the yanks call "a complete nothing-burger".

                                                                                                                                                                              • loeg 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                It's a shame that this is one of the only accurate top-level comments and it's downvoted to hell.
                                                                                                                                                                                • tombert 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                  I think the complaint is that it's not really a "comment", so much as it's a link to Bryan's own 20 minute video talking about it. It comes off as an annoying bit of self-promotion.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Though I will admit that Bryan is just a deeply unlikable human who is generally under-informed-at-best on any given subject that he's talking about, so people might be looking at it more cynically than if someone else posted it.

                                                                                                                                                                                  • loeg 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                    Fair enough.
                                                                                                                                                                                • tombert 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                  [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                • philipwhiuk 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                  [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                  • bgtool 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                    [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Craggles086 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                    Sounds like it is DistroWatch that is being censored, and not the entire Linux ecosystem.

                                                                                                                                                                                    All the Linux reviews that I have been warned about or have been removed have been links to DistroWatch.

                                                                                                                                                                                    https://youtu.be/xOdMTS6XVu4?si=BzT8MufRwxe-Tvba

                                                                                                                                                                                    • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                      • InDubioProRubio 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                        The cost of pissing of devs is so high, why cant companies just knuckle under- stop attacking add-blocking browsers like firefox or dev-operating systems. Why would you want to enter that world of pain of getting a ton of adversaries with while balancing on stack o swiss-cheese and duct tape? What is going wrong in those decision maker heads.
                                                                                                                                                                                        • thefounder 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                          Facebook is just a website. Move on!
                                                                                                                                                                                          • beretguy 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                            Facebook is a cyber security threat.
                                                                                                                                                                                            • funcDropShadow 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                              Didn't Mark Zuckerberg say he would reduce censorship on FB just a few weeks ago?
                                                                                                                                                                                              • assimpleaspossi 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                What am I missing here? Why would anyone go to Facebook to discuss Linux?
                                                                                                                                                                                                • 7bit 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                  I thought Zuckerberg was removing any fact checkers and platform censoring. I'm thoroughly confused. But maybe since Zuckerbergs death the company changed directions again.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • imchillyb 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Can't sell Linux users AI.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Inability to market directly is antithesis to Facebook and its ilk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Linux gives users control. That is the very last thing anyone in power wants anyone else to have.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    • lexicality 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm genuinely surprised that people were using facebook of all things to discuss Linux distros.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      The idea of having to wade through AI generated pictures of Shrimp Jesus and my mad uncle posting about his latest attempts to turn lead into gold (yes, really) to find out about new distros to try seems very alien to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      • knowitnone 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm sure lead technically can be turned into gold or anything for that matter with enough energy
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • monocasa 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Several groups actually have both intentionally and unintentionally.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          In most cases they're pretty radioactive isotopes of gold. But IMO that just makes it feel even more like alchemy. The gold is cursed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          • brink 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Your electricity bill might be greater than the value of the produced gold though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            • ben_w 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                              You can indeed turn lead into gold; it will indeed be more expensive than it is worth; also the gold will be radioactive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            • MathMonkeyMan 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I think they turned some platinum atoms into gold. In a particle accelerator.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            • UntitledNo4 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I want to know more about your uncle. I'm not on Facebook, but that would make me consider joining...
                                                                                                                                                                                                              • lexicality 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's entertaining in the abstract but fairly depressing when he's telling you in person that he's spending his children's inheritance on turning lead slightly yellow. Still, on the bright side, he seems to have stopped talking about the "globalists" so much.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                • Detrytus 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Globalists are history now, Trump will take care of them :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                              • einpoklum 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                (sob) Shrimp Jesus is real! (sniffle)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Also, turning lead into gold is easy: Just break all the protons off to get Hydrogen and maybe Helium, then compress it back so you get a star to form, and wait for it to go nova. Or, if you're in a hurry, you can compress your Hydrogen more and if you kind of jiggle it just the right way then you should get some gold along with other heavy elements.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                • jbm 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Your uncle sounds like a lot more fun than the latest javascript build system.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Imagine being confident enough to believe and document that. Crazy? Maybe, but a crazy one can appreciate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • BeetleB 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I know you're only half serious, but ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The problem isn't when one uncle is doing this. The problem is when the bulk of the content you see on FB is as crazy as this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I mean, if you like purchasing the National Enquirer and flipping through it, then by all means, this is for you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • jbm 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yeah, I can understand. I'm fortunate not to have many uncles and aunts who were old enough to use Facebook, and my parents were fairly tech-antagonistic. I did get to see a little of what you are referring to when some of my coworkers added me on FB and started sharing political content.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I still prefer that to all of the fake AI-slop message boards and meme/video culture that seems to have replaced it on FB.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • TheOtherHobbes 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Tech obviously isn't a strong suit, but elsewhere Facebook does have corners with good/entertaining/useful small communities. They have good SNR and are more personal than Reddit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The secret is to train your feed by bookmarking the groups and linking to them directly instead of accepting whatever flailing nonsense the algo decides to default to.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Having said that - I hope everyone has worked out by now that when you have a "free speech" culture based on covert curation and moderation of contentious issues, it's not just going to be about porn and trans people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Non-mainstream (i.e. non-consumer) tech is going to be labelled bad-think and suppressed too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • hn_acc1 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Wonder if someone used "qubes" as a way to work around a ban on "pubes" and the filter thought it was porn?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • DidYaWipe 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There's no excuse for Facebook's behavior, but... Who savvy enough to use Linux also uses Facebook?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Iolaum 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The ones who have family and friends that use it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • BlueTemplar 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          At which point you should start protecting your loved ones by having a conversation about this not being acceptable behavior ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Platforms seem to get a lot more leeway than abusing drugs (alcohol,smoking...) for some reason ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • DidYaWipe 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hahaha, I was going to make a similar retort but couldn't be bothered.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Fortunately, my parents rejected Facebook from the start; and they're online plenty.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            We're all going to have to start having the same conversations about LinkedIn, AKA Facebook Pro.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • beardyw 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am getting no response on that link.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • vmilner 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Distrowatch seems to be under heavy load (probably because of this news story)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • zactato 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It makes sense

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I assume Facebook doesn't want anything posted on FB that can't be turned into a racist diatribe. There's not a whole lot of racism potential in Kernel tuning.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Maybe you could squeeze in anti-Finnish rant about Linus, but it would be minimal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • Lardsonian 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Interesting, lets just see what Facebook runs on...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • James_K 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Starting on January 19, 2025 Facebook's internal policy makers decided that Linux is malware

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm glad someone finally said it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • habibur 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I get blocked anytime I share my github project.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • aurelien 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  For information X and Meta are not Social Network but Identity Tracing Network.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Give their database to bot for search and destroy and you will understand by how many will survive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Good luck!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • akurilov 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      After the ethnic cleaning of the Linux maintainers list I would say I'm not impressed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • hsuduebc2 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Lol. So glad they let literal lies and propaganda going with community notes but keep something usefull. Garbage as always.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • docmars 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Welcome to 2020 Facebook, except they're coverage of valid topics to ban and censor has expanded more broadly now. This might've been avoided had more of its users sent a message 4-5 years ago that social media censorship isn't acceptable in a society that prides itself on free speech.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • kussenverboten 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            discuss GNU instead... or maybe microcontrollers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • cess11 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Perhaps they've become closer buddies with MICROS~1. I wouldn't be surprised if they did this in exchange for "AI" compute, i.e. that losing the Linux audience is worth less than being seen favourably by elder oligarchs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • kristiandupont 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                MS doesn't care about Linux any more like they did in the 90's and 00's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • cess11 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sure they do. They really, really don't want government agencies and non-techies to realise that there is a better option for most everyday computer tasks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • udev4096 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                No one, more than linux users, cares about privacy and freedom. What is even the point of using crapbook? Everyone in linux community is either hanging out on IRC or matrix or have self hosted forums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • em-bee 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to talk to people who are not yet using linux?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • sophacles 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What? Google is a linux user - I doubt they care about privacy or freedom. Same with facebook - that company uses linux a lot while actively opposing privacy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Lots of people use linux because it's a good OS, irrespective of privacy concerns (see the occasional flareup about some software or another automatically shipping off bug reports - some people don't care, others are incredibly concerned).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • chris_wot 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Another great reason to not use Facebook or any other social media.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Beretta_Vexee 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My wife was temporarily banned for a photo of a marble statue. My mother receives invitations to groups that share photos of migrants drowned in the Mediterranean. Don't use Facebook, and certainly don't depend on it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Edit: Recently, a lot of associations working to prevent HIV, sexually-transmitted diseases and family planning have been progressively de-listed, or their content blocked and their accounts banned, all over the world on all META platforms. This is the true face of freedom of expression according to META and its “community rules”.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Meta censorship of abortion pill content (french) : https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/veille-sanit...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • bawolff 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Facebook seems to be going really heavy handed with moderation. They also blocked some wikimedia sites like https://meta.wikimedia.org and https://species.wikimedia.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • w0m 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Define Blocked? I just posted a https://meta.wikimedia.org/ link without issue.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • numbsafari 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • nntwozz 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                “Our greatest ethical imperative is to create our own life's meaning, while protecting the freedom of others to do the same.”

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                — Simone de Beauvoir

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • dmix 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Meta barely changed their moderation policy. The community standard docs which list every violation are still extremely long and cover a large swath of speech https://transparency.meta.com/policies/community-standards/, to which they only added 2 bullet point exceptions (and eventually the future addition of community notes)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • sunshowers 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The exceptions are not minor. Some groups can be called mentally ill, but other similarly situated groups cannot.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It's a capitulation to the idea that speech standards should be determined by public opinion and not by reason, evidence and a scientific mindset.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • lproven 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @dang: I do not know why this is flagged, but I think it's a significant development and it shouldn't be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Even LWN is covering it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              https://lwn.net/Articles/1006328/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • dang 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've turned the flags off now. It's not a very good thread, though—mostly jokes and generic reactions, which is what happens when an article contains little information, but the information it does contain is provocative. (Edit: the comments got somewhat better through the afternoon.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                These little scandals nearly always turn out to be glitchy emphemera in the Black Box of $BigCo, rather than a policy or plan. I imagine that's the case here too. Why would Facebook ban discussion of the operating system it runs on, after 20+ years?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (Btw: @dang doesn't work - if you want reliable message delivery you need to email hn@ycombinator.com)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • oefrha 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I flagged it when it first showed up because “Facebook ban on discussing Linux” is obviously bullshit, it took me half a minute to confirm The Linux Foundation was posting about Linux as recently as an hour ago.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I can believe DistroWatch the website got blocked by Facebook for whatever reason and I can sympathize, but exaggerating it to something obviously false doesn’t do them any favors. I think the title needs to be changed if it’s allowed to stay up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • lproven 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thank you very much!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  TBH I didn't think the @ thing would work - I was just hoping you'd notice. I have been meaning to email you, though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • VanTheBrand 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ultimately, @dang seems to have worked just fine, so well that it worked even without working.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • americasonly 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • dang 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I get quite a few of those
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • LorenDB 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anybody here have connections at Meta? Seems like this should be fixed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • lproven 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have written to their PR department. TBH I am not expecting a useful answer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • ahoka 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Good luck connecting to a human at Meta. Even the CEO is a cyborg.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • benrutter 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If I'm reading right, the same facebook who announced a week or so ago that they where scaling back all moderation and validation around online safety, are now putting a blanket ban on users discussing such a fundamental aspect of modern technology that facebook itself runs on it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If this is a genuine policy, I'm at a complete loss to understand Facebook's stance on anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • loeg 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Distrowatch has taken the observation that distrowatch URLs are blocked and really hyperbolized that into the broader and incorrect claim that discussion of Linux is banned. It isn't.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • spencerflem 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the "free speech" was a promise to promote right wing speech. do not mistake it for ideology.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          banning left wing activism, either acknowledging the genocide in Gaza or apparently now promoting free (less surveilled) software is against what the authoritarians want so it is banned.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          this is all consistent if you see it through that lens

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • CivBase 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But it's not consistent because Linux is not aligned with either side of US politics. This doesn't address OP's confusion.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • spencerflem 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              dang's probably right that its a glitch- but I honestly believe Linux is Free as in Freedom, which is opposed by both parties but primarily the radical authoritarians in charge right now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • yellowapple 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Linux is free software, and software freedom is communist. It's also the brainchild of a Finn, and every red-blooded American knows that Europeans are all commies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Real patriots use good ol' American operating systems, like Oracle Solaris™.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • nonrandomstring 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • dingnuts 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • spencerflem 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  yea this is true - & also not a democrat & also upset with some of the stuff they've censored in the past too

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  W/ that said, censoring anti trans stuff and racist stuff makes the platform more pleasant for me, whereas what they're doing now does not

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • oliwarner 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              This should not be flagged.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Post itself is a little light on evidence, but there are people here already who've tried to post Linuxey things, and have seen it in action.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • johnea 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I notice a lot of topics being flagged recently.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I would ask flaggers to simply skip those posts and let people who are interested in discussing those topics have their discussion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Shutting down other peoples conversations is a disturbing trend and it is giving HN more of a one sided echo chamber feel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • Mountain_Skies 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Tech censorship, especially during the pandemic, made some giddy with power that they thought would extend to everything forever.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • IgorPartola 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I thought they were going to go full free speech. /s

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Seriously, if you haven’t already, sign up for a Mastodon account. This is the motivation you need. Encourage some friends and family members to connect with you there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • grazing_fields 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [dead]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • paulnpace 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Why is this submission flagged?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • RandomBacon 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      HN moderation outsourced to FB? /joke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • dredmorbius 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • kbelder 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Look at the quality of the posts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This is an obvious mistake, it's obvious Facebook isn't deliberately banning Linux posts, it's obvious their moderation is incorrectly flagging some posts for some reason, it'll get fixed. It could have been an interesting story and discussion about problems with false positives and automated moderating, or about the lack of human contact at Facebook scale, but instead it's just passionate screeds from too easily excitable posters.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (I didn't flag it, btw.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • beardyw 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            People flag stuff.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • ribcage 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • Swoerd 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • stonesthrowaway 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • itsmartapuntocm 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Facebook explicitly told them that Linux was remaining on their cybersecurity filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • loeg 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I suspect the author is summarizing the response in an inaccurate way. I suspect the response was that distrowatch is remaining filtered (because it linked to a tarball that AVs flag as malware).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If your domain links to content that AVs flag as malware, it gets blocked on FB. This is probably not shocking? Distrowatch is likely uniquely susceptible to this because they're constantly linking to novel, 3rd-party tarballs ("Latest Packages" column).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • aleph_minus_one 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If your domain links to content that AVs flag as malware, it gets blocked on FB. This is probably not shocking?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Getting banned for linking to a tarball that is falsely flagged as malware is shocking, in particular if there is no easy way to appeal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • itsmartapuntocm 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I hope that’s the case. It’s certainly a lot less chilling than intentional censorship.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • boozerloozer 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • vcryan 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Dump Facebook.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • rolandog 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My hypothesis is that they're now censoring things that seem "lefty".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • guappa 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          They have been censoring lefty things for ages… It's well known how you could be openly nazi but never openly communist.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • duxup 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Bot or ML gone wrong and it misunderstood the mention of Linux when associated with bad things and just equated them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • buyucu 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            this is why content moderation is a really bad idea. the false positives are going to dominate any moderation you do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • forgetfreeman 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'd assert that using private walled gardens as primary distribution channels is the root bad idea here.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • buyucu 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                they go together. once you have a walled garden, the temptation to moderate/censor it is too large. censorship was practically impossible in the old internet before social media.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • forgetfreeman 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It was also largely unnecessary because folks hadn't normalized acting like wild animals in online spaces, tools for automating acting like a wild animal online were lacking, and reach was extremely limited so there was little financial incentive for private interests to engage with the space in any way. All of which takes a back seat to folks more or less agreeing that online is where bullshit lived and only an embarrassing rube would take any of it seriously. The great irony here being the amount of bullshit online has only increased decade over decade yet weirdly at some point folks started taking it seriously, with utterly predictable results.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • iefbr14 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I didn't notice. Maybe because I have a long list of facebook domains in my hosts.deny.