A Coup Is in Progress in America

365 points by maximilianburke 5 months ago | 170 comments
  • tbatchelli 5 months ago
    People seem to think that:

    1. Auto-coups don't exist 2. Coups require tanks on the street 3. Once a coup is started it will succeed.

    This is a an auto-coup, where the president is trying to seize power that is not granted by elections, and trying to make the legal system irrelevant. All in the name of urgency and saving the country (we call them "salva patrias" in Spain for a reason). No one can vote for this. Voting a president does not make the president all powerful.

    Also, this coup does not need to succeed. We saw this recently in South Korea. This will only succeed if people don't oppose it. Don't believe them when they make you feel like you already lost.

    Finally, the game has changed for the supporters of democracy. This is no longer about writing stern worded letters, if you catch my drift.

    (references: I was born in a dictatorship and I lived through a failed military coup)

    • red-iron-pine 5 months ago
      > This is no longer about writing stern worded letters, if you catch my drift.

      I've been hoping the Pentagon would grow some balls, but that looks like it won't happen.

      Guillotines it is, then

    • raxxorraxor 5 months ago
      To be fair, this is the modus operandi since early 2000 at least. Terrorism it was at that point. Broad surveillance and control policies were justified by a constant threat and there was always some threat and democracy had to take a backseat, even constitutional rights (I am not from the US, but developments were similar in my country).

      Trump might behave more colorfully here, but I have to be honest that this isn't at all unfamiliar. I think a lot of Trumps current power stems from pretty weak defenders of democracy. Not referring to the previous government and instead of the common sentiment of 21st century politics. It doesn't lend itself to give a convincing picture.

      Maybe that is a trap, but it just isn't that outrageous anymore in an overall outrageous context. Perhaps it is indeed worse, but I think a lot of damage was already done.

      • 5 months ago
        • scarface_74 5 months ago
          People aren’t opposing it. The legislation is letting Trump usurp their power. This is something that old school Republicans wouldn’t have let happen. But the Republican Party has been taking over by Trump.

          Also, why would the majority oppose it? What he is doing is affecting illegal immigrants (who can’t vote), the poorest people who those just one level up think they are “only temporarily poor”, minorities, trans - you notice that he only removed the T from LGBT while he is taking down “wokeness”.

          You also have to remember he has the evangelical Christian block in his pocket who literally believe he was sent by God to keep America from descending in hell fire. You can’t “reason” with devout religious people. Religion requires you to ignore logic and science (born and raised in the Bible Belt).

          You notice he isn’t disrupting farmers in red states with immigration raids? Also because of gerrymandering and how the Senate is designed. The low population red states have much more power than their population calls for.

          • locopati 5 months ago
            "you notice that he only removed the T from LGBT"

            for now... it won't stop there

            • scarface_74 5 months ago
              The Log Cabin Republicans serve as their shield that “they aren’t homophobic” just like they trot out Tim Scott as their token Black to show they aren’t racist. As a Black person, there is no way in the world I would be put on stage to shuck and jive for the modern Republican Party even if I did agree with some of their policies before 2016.

              Besides plenty of Christians have had to come to terms with the fact that at least one person they care about is gay. Many fewer have someone they care about that is trans.

            • stogot 5 months ago
              > You also have to remember he has the evangelical Christian block in his pocket who literally believe he was sent by God to keep America from descending in hell fire. You can’t “reason” with devout religious people.

              No not true. only a few people believe that. Most do not. Stop grouping religious people into the few who interview on tv.

              > Religion requires you to ignore logic and science (born and raised in the Bible Belt).

              Also wildly not true and you’re extending an experience you had to a whole population, which is a biased opinion.

              Many of us use science and logic daily, in conversations, and there are well received physicists who argue for an existence of a God using logic. The Bible says to use both wisdom and knowledge (logic and science).

              • monkeyfun 5 months ago
                Absolutely have to disagree on both counts. However, since you do at least sound reasonable, I'll prefer to just focus on the first claim, as we'd otherwise easily spend hours just debating basic philosophy in circles, and arguing about what even counts as valid logic.

                We're already just engaging in anecdotes, but having lived all around the south from virginia to texas, I've found that almost "god-king" belief extremely common in southern baptists in particular and christians in general -- especially if you done it down ever so slightly to: "Trump has God's favor, he was probably sent by God to save our country, which is God's favorite on Earth". I have, however, little experience with the north or the west -- almost only the traditional US south.

                So, my questions for you would have to be, do you live in the south or elsewhere? Also, what would your analysis be in general about such people? (Regardless of if they are many or few)

                • scarface_74 5 months ago
                  > No not true. only a few people believe that. Most do not. Stop grouping religious people into the few who interview on tv.

                  60-72% of White Christians voted for Trump.

                  > Many of us use science and logic daily, in conversations, and there are well received physicists who argue for an existence of a God using logic. The Bible says to use both wisdom and knowledge (logic and science).

                  Context: you’re replying to someone who spent his entire elementary school education in a private Christian school and even through the first year of high school was part of a “leadership group” going to Bible bowls.

                  So tell me one line in Genesis or Exodus that makes sense scientifically? Do you think humans ever lived to be 900 years old? The Jews ever being in Egypt has never been backed up by any historical record. Do you believe any of the miracles have a scientific basis? Do you believe in creation or evolution? Noah’s ark?

                  Now let’s go to the New Testament. Do you believe that Jesus was born to a virgin? He arose from the dead?

                  You can not believe anything that the Bible said happened and be science based.

                  I’m not pasting the following link to “prove” anything. It is a better summation of my opinion that is better written than I would do

                  https://www.ineos.com/inch-magazine/articles/issue-7/debate/

                  • mafuy 5 months ago
                    There does not exist a proper argument for the existence of God that does not require use of "God is above logic".

                    I'll believe that many Christians do not see Trump as savior, though. Following true Christian values in these times is a great idea.

                • scarab92 5 months ago
                  [flagged]
                  • panarky 5 months ago
                    People also seem to think that an autocratic takeover can't happen if the autocrat was elected. In fact, most autocratic takeovers begin with a democratic election.
                • zmgsabst 5 months ago
                  [flagged]
                • 2-3-7-43-1807 5 months ago
                  [flagged]
                  • tommiegannert 5 months ago
                    "Auto" usually means "self," so this would be a coup coming from already elected officials.
                    • tim333 5 months ago
                      >what is an "auto-coup"?

                      from wikipedia:

                      >a form of coup d'état in which a political leader, having come to power through legal means, stays in power through illegal means through the actions of themselves and/or their supporters.

                      So Trump trying to stay on in 2020 was an attempt at one. Trump delegating firing people to Musk isn't really. The current stuff doesn't seem illegal either - I think the US president is allowed to say find out who's unnecessary and fire them even if the people being fired shout 'coup', 'unfair' and the like. I'm not sure it's a good idea but that doesn't mean it's illegal.

                      • locopati 5 months ago
                        Access to secure systems by people who have not been given access rights through proper channels is certainly problematic if not outright illegal.

                        Congress has Constitutional vetting power over Presidential appointments. It's part of the checks&balances. That has not happened. The purpose of a department has been altered by an appointee who has not been vetted. Again, incredibly problematic if not outright illegal.

                        • 2-3-7-43-1807 5 months ago
                          preparational activities for criminal goals are often decidedly legal. same for coups. you hollow out the defense of your opponents by legal means before you go for the guts.
                      • scarab92 5 months ago
                        [flagged]
                        • tbatchelli 5 months ago
                          If they want to make budget cuts, they can get it approved by congress, which they control. So do that.
                        • pubby 5 months ago
                          Well, they won two branches democratically. The supreme court is a different matter.
                          • red-iron-pine 5 months ago
                            They've been packing the court for decades now, a concerted push since the W Bush era. That's not even a discussion anymore.

                            remember not the debacle that was Kavanaugh boofing, and being gropey as hell in the past, and crying? or Amy Comey Barret's complete lack of qualification in any way?

                            Or how Chief Justice Roberts got appointed basically on the idea that he's going to approve and reinforce Hobby Lobby and Citizen's United?

                          • archagon 5 months ago
                            Oh, the words are absolutely being used accurately. As a reminder, the president is an impeached felon and rapist who literally tried to steal the last election. His billionaire vizier gleefully used two Nazi salutes at the inauguration and backs far-right parties around the world. On day one, the administration announced that 30,000 migrants would be housed indefinitely at Gitmo, of all places. And now, our federal government is being infiltrated and ransacked by a rogue team with zero oversight or transparency.

                            Historians will be baffled by how some people missed even these signs. I guess critical thinking is in terribly scarce supply these days.

                            • Freedom2 5 months ago
                              To add onto your point, America already had 4 years of Trump, and Trump was very clear on what he and the people aligned to him were going to do throughout his campaign. What is happening now is what America voted for and what they wanted.
                              • piva00 5 months ago
                                Not sure if a flawed democracy can really call the result of its flawed system "democratic" though.
                            • epicureanideal 5 months ago
                              [flagged]
                              • Kim_Bruning 5 months ago
                                Doesn't require violence. See South Korea.

                                And not all coups are violent. Eg. EU is putting up with Orban in Hungary at the moment. Poland was a narrow miss.

                                • red-iron-pine 5 months ago
                                  But it was going to be violent. The to-be-deposed SK president had plans to use the SK Army to seize power, and even had Special Forces sent to the SK Parliament -- they just didn't really know what was going on, and weren't keen on shooting at their own Congress
                                • __d 5 months ago
                                  I think that's a stretch?

                                  Public protest is non-violent, but a solid step up from writing letters.

                                  • latentcall 5 months ago
                                    And public protests can just be ignored. Tell me, if you had absolute control of the government and military and people didn’t like what you did and asked you to stop nicely with signs and kumbaya circles, would you stop?

                                    I’m tired of people so resistant to fighting back they’d rather just get walked on.

                                  • defrost 5 months ago
                                    Advocating legal pushback and resistance.

                                    These do not imply violence.

                                    • tbatchelli 5 months ago
                                      Don’t put words in my mouth. I am not advocating in violence. I never have.
                                      • readthenotes1 5 months ago
                                        Perhaps "if you catch my drift" was meant to imply something other than words you couldn't publicly say?
                                      • 5 months ago
                                        • highasfcuk 5 months ago
                                          [flagged]
                                          • tbatchelli 5 months ago
                                            You are the only person advocating for violence here. Bringing my wife and kids here is very brave of you.
                                        • normalaccess 5 months ago
                                          I'm under the impression that trump is doing exactly what at least 51% of the population want him to do. He campaigned on dismantling the wheels of established power in DC.

                                          EDIT: To expand on that Idea there is the exact apposing view that Biden was doing the same thing by the people that voted Trump in. But as we all know the media prefers one candidate over the other. Trump is the grenade that is supposed to destroy the power structures (the so called Deep State or permanent bureaucracy) in DC.

                                          • thejazzman 5 months ago
                                            i agree in principle but it's not reality

                                            my moms lifelong friend recently told us her grandkids are all trumpers

                                            they're all on SSI. one had four abortions. and they LOVE trump.

                                            every group in america was promised whatever they want, despite the endless hypocrisies/lies with that, and none of them seem to care whatsoever??

                                            for this reason i see no way out of this hell. it's simply beyond reason at this point.

                                            (this take is from pennsylvania)

                                            • normalaccess 5 months ago
                                              If there is one thing about Trump everyone can agree on, it's that he is a devastatingly effective communicator.

                                              And when I say that I don't mean good or correct or proper, I mean effective. He has an innate ability (and if you watch old clips always has) to pull the conversation where he wants it.

                                            • anon_shill 5 months ago
                                              Correction: 31% of the eligible voting population and ~50% of the popular vote. A lot of people did not vote.
                                              • normalaccess 5 months ago
                                                Thank you, that is an important point. Voting numbers can only estimate the totals.

                                                I should have use the term *Electorate*.

                                                  The collective people of a country, state, or electoral district who are entitled to vote.
                                                • scarface_74 5 months ago
                                                  And they too are getting exactly what they asked for by not voting.
                                                • tweezy 5 months ago
                                                  I think the issue is that this is not "dismantling the wheels of established power", so much as it is centralizing and increasing the power of the executive branch.

                                                  It's not getting rid of all these bureaucrats in DC and giving power back to the people. It's getting rid any sort of independence and removing the barriers to centralizing power under Trump so that he can grab even more power and control.

                                                  And just to be pedantic, Trump received 49% of the vote and Kamala receive 48%. And that's of people who voted. He received 77 million out 244 million of the voting-eligible population, or around 31%.

                                                  There may be a plurality of people who want the Executive branch under Trump to consolidate power, but it's not the majority.

                                                  https://election.lab.ufl.edu/2024-general-election-turnout/

                                                  • normalaccess 5 months ago
                                                    I can see that, on the one hand he is removing what he thinks is bureaucratic fat while at the same time giving himself (or the position) powers to do so.

                                                    I personally believe the government of the USA is probably 10x the size it needs to be so i like seeing the cuts but I am well aware of the dangers you speak of.

                                                    Either way, we live in interesting times.

                                              • Kim_Bruning 5 months ago
                                                Some might react too strongly to the word "coup," but another term might be more accurate: "Orbanization."

                                                Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orbán didn’t take power through a military coup—he systematically dismantled democratic systems while maintaining the outward appearance of democracy. Over time, his government:

                                                * Purged independent civil servants and replaced them with loyalists.

                                                * Gained control of media platforms to shape public discourse.

                                                * Undermined legal checks on executive power through judicial and procedural manipulation.

                                                * Shifted state functions into private hands, where oversight is weaker.

                                                We may be seeing similar patterns emerging in the U.S.—not with tanks, but through institutional capture and elite influence.

                                                The good news? Unlike military coups, this type of democratic backsliding can still be resisted peacefully. But the window for effective resistance does close with each passing institutional change.

                                                • wuschel 5 months ago
                                                  Similar activity was observed in Poland for a long time. The country was split half-half between the ruling party that strived to deconstruct the democractic institutions and a weak, fragmented left that was unable to win enough votes to re-gain power.Loyalists were put in power, including the president of the state.

                                                  Poland is still repairing the damages done to the court system, media landscape, and other state organisations and organs.

                                                  The learning, whether Weimar Republic, Hungary, Poland et cetera is: A change in power is not a problem unless the party in power is out to destroy all that enables other players to keep power in check and allow for a future peaceful political transition.

                                                  The U.S. has a different political culture and norms than E.U. states. Will will see how things will turn out.

                                                  • m463 5 months ago
                                                    I predict this will happen in the future through the most common method of evildoing - a software update.
                                                    • java-man 5 months ago
                                                      History of a certain European country disagrees with such an optimistic view.

                                                      I hope you are right though.

                                                      • tim333 5 months ago
                                                        We've had four years of Trump before and there wasn't anything along the lines of Hitler or Orban. This time maybe a bit Orban like.
                                                        • weare138 5 months ago
                                                          There were some adults in the room during his first administration that prevented his worst inclinations. It wasn't from a lack of trying. Now the GOP controls all 3 branches of government and stacked SCOTUS who have already ruled in favor of autocracy by granting presidents blanket immunity while in office. Now Trump is solidifying power and installing loyalists in every key position of power possible. They are violating the Constitution and rule of law. This is a coup. There's no other way to put it. The Nazi's took control of Germany without firing a shot. They were elected.
                                                    • soerxpso 5 months ago
                                                      What is the valid democratic process to use if the public doesn't like the unelected officers of the institutions of the executive branch? Is the claim being made that these people have a constitutional right to run the FBI, USAID, etc forever, and the public is not allowed to elect someone to fire them? From what I can tell, it does look a lot like a coup, of an unelected bureaucracy trying to prevent the elected president from fulfilling his campaign promises that the public elected him for.
                                                      • hackyhacky 5 months ago
                                                        > What is the valid democratic process to use if the public doesn't like the unelected officers of the institutions of the executive branch?

                                                        Mostly they serve at the pleasure of the president, some have to be approved by Congress.

                                                        > Is the claim being made that these people have a constitutional right to run the FBI, USAID, etc forever, and the public is not allowed to elect someone to fire them?

                                                        No, the claim is that only Congress can allocates funds to create these agencies, and only Congress can de-allocate funds for them, so the executive branch (and whoever the executive branch empowers, whether or not they are a government employee) does not have a right to shut them down.

                                                        > From what I can tell, it does look a lot like a coup, of an unelected bureaucracy trying to prevent the elected president from fulfilling his campaign promises that the public elected him for.

                                                        The president is not a king. He is the head of the executive branch and has a large degree of control over how the bureaucracy is run, but not total control. Maybe you aren't American or maybe you don't remember elementary school civics, but the US operates on a system of checks-and-balances to prevent any one branch of governement from acquiring too much power. The coup-in-progress is the president apparently subverting those checks and balances.

                                                        • Gollapalli 5 months ago
                                                          > at the pleasure of the president

                                                          The point poster above is making is that the president should be able to fire them, and should be able to audit whether or not they have been doing their jobs correctly, which is essentially what is occurring.

                                                          • pas 5 months ago
                                                            The arbitrariness is the problem.

                                                            """

                                                            the order for [FBI] employees to compile lists of all current and former personnel who worked on investigations related to January 6, 2021, and a Hamas-related case.

                                                            """

                                                            Also, if I understand correctly, agents are civil servants (not political appointees) and they cannot be simply fired at will.

                                                            • derbOac 5 months ago
                                                              There's a process in law for this, and he can't simply remove programs wholesale that have congressionally allocated funds.

                                                              This is all in law, which is why people are calling this a coup.

                                                              The coup isn't so much about the firing it's about freezing programs, or cutting them entirely without going through the process of congressional approval.

                                                              • hackyhacky 5 months ago
                                                                No. What is happening is shutting down of departments without congressional approval, which is unconstitutional. This is being done by an uncleared individual with no government or domain expertise, which is merely a bad idea.
                                                              • derbOac 5 months ago
                                                                Not trying to be sarcastic but everything you're saying is all clearly stated in Article 1 of the Constitution, which branches do what. It feels as if part of what's going on is leveraging of either feigned or real ignorance about how things are supposed to operate.
                                                                • mindslight 5 months ago
                                                                  People's brains have been so broken by corporate authoritarianism they've come to believe it is a template for how everything is supposed to work.
                                                              • whamlastxmas 5 months ago
                                                                Don’t vote for democrats thinking they’re going to solve the real problems or meaningfully addresss this in any way. Vote for people who want to overhaul the system in ways that are friendly to democracy. The DNC is still a very poor choice for people who are pro democracy
                                                              • potsandpans 5 months ago
                                                                Could someone please cite for me in plain english what has transpired in the last 48 hours?
                                                                • quinncom 5 months ago
                                                                  Matt Kiser’s WTFJHT delivers useful daily summaries of all significant actions out of the White House. Here’s yesterday’s edition: https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2025/02/03/day-1476...
                                                                  • throw310822 5 months ago
                                                                    Also shutting down of federal agencies without Congress approval and getting access to their data:

                                                                    "Musk on the call also appeared to claim credit for the shutdown of the U.S. Agency for International Development ... though the executive branch’s legal authority to do so without congressional action is highly in doubt, as the agency’s existence is established in law. Trump on Monday said he didn’t need an act of Congress to shut down USAID.

                                                                    USAID’s homepage has been shut down for days, as is its X account. Dozens of career staff at the agency have been put on leave, and hundreds have been shut out of agency computer systems. Musk aides have gained access to classified USAID information over the objection of agency security personnel, who were subsequently placed on leave, The Associated Press reported."

                                                                  • binary_slinger 5 months ago
                                                                    [flagged]
                                                                    • hackyhacky 5 months ago
                                                                      > Trump and his colleagues are trying to reduce spending by cutting payments to things deemed unnecessary. Some feel the process in which they do this is questionable and opaque.

                                                                      That's not quite accurate. I would say: "some feel the process in which they do this is unconstitutional as the executive branch does not have the authority to dissolve programs." And furthermore: "some feel entrusting these vital government functions to an un-vetted non-employee with no oversight will lead to abuse and conflicts of interest."

                                                                    • nosioptar 5 months ago
                                                                      [flagged]
                                                                      • bckr 5 months ago
                                                                        Wikipedia says he’s a citizen.
                                                                        • epicureanideal 5 months ago
                                                                          Isn’t the President able to appoint people to do these things? It’s not clear to me this is not permitted.
                                                                          • yibg 5 months ago
                                                                            Does the president have authority shut down USAID?
                                                                            • searke 5 months ago
                                                                              tl;dr No. If this were permitted, then a president would just be a dictator.

                                                                              And he didn't even appoint Musk. Musk isn't head of any government department. He's just a random guy who has a ton of money.

                                                                            • Mountain_Skies 5 months ago
                                                                              >unelected

                                                                              Almost everyone in the government is unelected.

                                                                            • Clubber 5 months ago
                                                                              [flagged]
                                                                              • maxerickson 5 months ago
                                                                                [flagged]
                                                                                • cf100clunk 5 months ago
                                                                                • oxley 5 months ago
                                                                                  This is not a drill, folks. It is happening in front of our eyes.

                                                                                  Call your congressperson today.

                                                                                  • Kim_Bruning 5 months ago
                                                                                    point of order: I don't think you can vouch for a flagged submission, right? Only for flagged comments.
                                                                                    • Timshel 5 months ago
                                                                                      Yes as far as I understand it's a big issue. Since you can only vouch once it's dead and usually too late. Additionnaly you might loose the ability to vouch ...
                                                                                      • throw310822 5 months ago
                                                                                        Yes you can.
                                                                                        • defrost 5 months ago
                                                                                          I'm fairly sure you can only vouch submissions once they've progressed frm [flagged] to [dead].
                                                                                          • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 5 months ago
                                                                                            You can only vouch for [dead] things, regardless of [flagged].
                                                                                      • cornhole 5 months ago
                                                                                        as someone who disagrees with this, what can i realistically do short of sacrificing bullets and blood
                                                                                        • dandanua 5 months ago
                                                                                          You can't win a war without sacrificing blood against someone who is ready to sacrifice as much blood as they want (not their own, of course). Look at Russia. They simply don't care if millions will die.
                                                                                          • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 5 months ago
                                                                                            Skip the bullets and hope they don’t go for blood.
                                                                                            • red-iron-pine 5 months ago
                                                                                              the US Army could walk into DC and shut this down tomorrow.

                                                                                              there is a reason why one of Trump's first orders was to dismiss all top generals.

                                                                                              • dragonwriter 5 months ago
                                                                                                > the US Army could walk into DC and shut this down tomorrow.

                                                                                                Yes, a military coup could override a civilian autocoup, and while there are a few (globally) historical cases where that has happened and the military coup leaders quickly worked with civilian leadership outside of either coup to restore something like normal government processes, there are also plenty of cases where that was out of the frying pan, into the fire.

                                                                                            • throwarayes 5 months ago
                                                                                              I disagree with the Coup framing.

                                                                                              It’s not clear that reorganizing US foreign aid agencies is in violation of statute. As I understand it statute allocate $X to US foreign aid. And instructs the State dept to organize this aid.

                                                                                              The EO to pause all payments was challenged in court and halted

                                                                                              A lot of bad crap has happened, and I disagree with what DOGE is doing, but it’s not a coup.

                                                                                              • slowmovintarget 5 months ago
                                                                                                USAID is not a US foreign aid agency. It is a US propaganda and soft power agency, opposite China's Belt & Road initiative. President Trump has named Marco Rubio as temporary head (so Secretary Rubio has two roles).

                                                                                                The President does have the authority to stop the agency's actions, and make it answer to the Secretary of State. Dissolving it altogether or making it part of the State Department likely requires Congressional approval.

                                                                                                • Blackstrat 5 months ago
                                                                                                  Exactly. Too many here oppose eliminating the militant, left wing, anti-Americanism from the US government. Restoring it to a more rational and Constitutionally based framework is what's happening. It's not a coup. The government wastes and launders incredible sums of OUR money. Example, some $100B of the aid to the Ukraine is missing, if you believe Zelensky. In all likelihood, Zelendsky pocketed some of it and routed other to Biden and other affiliated NGO and back into the hands of the globalist faction. Resisting illegal immigration is likewise not a coup. It's the restoration of sovereignty and the rule of law. Nor is eliminating DEI/woke propaganda a coup. It is a restoration of common sense and science. Trump isn't the problem. The problem is all of the folks out here that are willing to surrender their lives to government and left wing utopian fantasies. They don't exist.
                                                                                                  • mikrotikker 5 months ago
                                                                                                    You need to read more instead of repeating Russian propaganda. The $100bn didn't "go missing". Zelensky is never seeing that money because it is not for him, it is for replenishing the US military stocks given to Ukraine with newer equipment.

                                                                                                    https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/Funding/

                                                                                                    • 5 months ago
                                                                                                • tim333 5 months ago
                                                                                                  Musk's take - in response to Chuck Schumer making similar criticisms:

                                                                                                  >He’s mad that @DOGE is dismantling the radical-left shadow government in full view of the public.

                                                                                                  >This is our ONE CHANCE to return POWER to the PEOPLE from an unelected BUREAUcracy back to DEMOcracy!! ...

                                                                                                  https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886840365329608708

                                                                                                  • walterbell 5 months ago
                                                                                                    DOGE progress bar, https://doge-tracker.com/

                                                                                                      515 Days until July 4th, 2026
                                                                                                      $1.82B Taxpayer Dollars Saved of $2T Goal
                                                                                                    
                                                                                                    For maximum transparency, this could be converted to an OSS repo with source code and vetted citations.
                                                                                                    • searke 5 months ago
                                                                                                      You can't claim to have "saved" money by destroying programs funded by congress that you have no authority to destroy.

                                                                                                      Especially when the long term costs of destroying those programs are going to be enormous.

                                                                                                      • walterbell 5 months ago
                                                                                                        If DOGE will document their claimed savings publicly, those claims can be tracked and challenged publicly. According to their claimed schedule, this will continue for the next 2 years. There can be case-by-case reviews by journalists, lawyers and courts.
                                                                                                        • searke 5 months ago
                                                                                                          You are the one who is claiming that they've saved $1.82 Billion dolars by posting some random website that thinks illegally destroying a federal agency is fiscally responsible.
                                                                                                        • Dig1t 5 months ago
                                                                                                          The president has authority to run these programs, every president has.

                                                                                                          DOGE is advising the president and the president is choosing what to do.

                                                                                                          There are a lot of people on this site claiming this is not legal for some reason but not really citing any law.

                                                                                                        • readthenotes1 5 months ago
                                                                                                          We're the DEI initiatives programs directly funded by legislation?

                                                                                                          Trump's executive order only stopped funding that wasn't required by legislation.

                                                                                                          If those programs are going to have long-term benefit, then they really should be directed by Congress and not by an autocratic president.

                                                                                                        • yibg 5 months ago
                                                                                                          "I saved you a tone of money by taking your credit cards and bank accounts without authorization. Now your expenses are way down!"
                                                                                                          • walterbell 5 months ago
                                                                                                            A court has already intervened to block the payment freeze, https://archive.is/Y5KWx

                                                                                                            > A federal judge said on Monday that she intended to temporarily block the Trump administration from imposing a sweeping freeze on trillions of dollars in federal grants and loans, adding to the pushback against an effort by the White House’s Office and Management and Budget.

                                                                                                          • nonchalantsui 5 months ago
                                                                                                            >Stalin tracker, 1933

                                                                                                            >5 million soviet rubles saved due to closing “ineffective farms”

                                                                                                            Who knew it could be that simple!

                                                                                                          • iJohnDoe 5 months ago
                                                                                                            It’s getting really old these are getting flagged. @dang can you do anything?

                                                                                                            Also, unfortunately, the HN crowd are not the type of people that will do anything in the physical world. We’re too busy sitting back thinking, “There is no way anyone is stupid enough to vote for Trump.” Then we all act shocked, and mainly disappointed people are actually stupid enough. We obviously solve nothing.

                                                                                                            Democrats don’t get out and vote. Women don’t get out and vote. If they did, Harris would would have been elected. If anyone watched her convention, they would have seen she is a good human being and would have been good for this country. It’s a damn shame where the USA is now.

                                                                                                            Republicans get out and vote. Bush Jr. was re-elected twice. During his first term he was already being called one of the worst presidents in history. He had the devil himself Chenney as his VP for crying out loud. Republicans get out and vote. Remember this the next election.

                                                                                                            • Gollapalli 5 months ago
                                                                                                              A lot of very smart, very technical people voted for the guy. And there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s a free country and people can vote their conscience and speak their piece.

                                                                                                              The article above is needlessly, wildly inflammatory. Frankly, so is your comment. Not everyone agrees with you, and you’ve made no case beyond cliqueishness as to why they should.

                                                                                                              • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 5 months ago
                                                                                                                > Not everyone agrees with you, and you’ve made no case beyond cliqueishness as to why they should.

                                                                                                                Does this not also apply to your comment?

                                                                                                                Not trying to be mean, just trying to offer a different perspective. It seems many others agree with the author and it’s similarly unreasonable to dismiss them along with the author as “needlessly, wildly inflammatory” for holding an opinion you don’t agree with.

                                                                                                              • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 5 months ago
                                                                                                                Despite the historical significance of current events, it’s not necessarily worth submitting an opinion about them. I suspect this was flagged out of a sort of topic fatigue, possibly even some from those who agree with the author. There will be threads about any new happenings, and those will more reasonably stay up as “news”. Keep speaking truth in those.
                                                                                                              • lostmsu 5 months ago
                                                                                                                > The president openly declares he won’t enforce laws he dislikes, while Congress watches in complicit silence.

                                                                                                                I voted against Trump, but this failed me right there. Does the author of this BS genuinely not know any instances of this from the dems and therefore is ignorant, or he does but unable to recognize hypocrisy?

                                                                                                                • Clubber 5 months ago
                                                                                                                  It's a hysteria party to sell ads. Here's how I see it: we have a $7 TRILLION budget for 2025 and Musk is trying to cut $2 TRILLION from it. Both the Democrats and Republicans probably want the budget cut, it's way out of control. They're just letting Musk take the heat because he doesn't have to get reelected. If it succeeds, the Dems will just let it lie, if it fails, they have campaign fodder for the next election.

                                                                                                                  Remember, last year we paid more in interest on debt than our entire military budget.

                                                                                                              • tlackemann 5 months ago
                                                                                                                So what does action look like? Half the country voted for this, we can't act surprised this is happening. We heard Trump's words loud and clear and half the country pretended to not listen or not care because "the liberals were ruining our country".

                                                                                                                What can we do, truthfully? I've wrote to elected officials who I haven't heard a peep from. Why aren't the people in charge taking lead to stop this? Genuine question. What can we do? Because the last paragraph in this article makes it sound like violence is the next step which is not something I personally advocate for myself.

                                                                                                                • freitasm 5 months ago
                                                                                                                  They didn't vote for this. I bet the majority of those voters cast their vote trying to get better egg prices. They aren't going to get that.
                                                                                                                  • akvadrako 5 months ago
                                                                                                                    Regardless of what people voted for (I disagree with your assessment) after the fact the recent EOs do have popular support.

                                                                                                                    https://issuesinsights.com/2025/02/03/trumps-executive-order...

                                                                                                                    • pindab0ter 5 months ago
                                                                                                                      How much of the support is because they actually agree with the policies being passed versus "their leader showing strength"?
                                                                                                                    • Dig1t 5 months ago
                                                                                                                      I assure you we absolutely did vote for this and it’s very fun to be winning so much. It’s awesome to see corruption being rooted out and to be learning how much tax payer money has been wasted.
                                                                                                                      • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                        • BLKNSLVR 5 months ago
                                                                                                                          Do you believe everything Trump is saying?

                                                                                                                          As an extreme and memorable example: "$x million was spent on condoms for Hamas"

                                                                                                                          In my experience of the world, therefore through my personal filter, most of the justifications and reasoning I hear out of Trump's mouth are massive simplifications at best and outright untruths at worst.

                                                                                                                          Regarding rooting out corruption: $TRUMP coin. So they're replacing perceived corruption with outright scams in order to profit from their position?

                                                                                                                        • robocat 5 months ago
                                                                                                                          The deepest strength of democracy is being able to vote disliked politicians out. So long as you can replace Trump next election then the costs are bearable.

                                                                                                                          I'm in New Zealand and our MMP system has elected politicians with zero constituency (list vote).

                                                                                                                          • unification_fan 5 months ago
                                                                                                                            [flagged]
                                                                                                                            • 5 months ago
                                                                                                                          • Mountain_Skies 5 months ago
                                                                                                                            >What can we do, truthfully?

                                                                                                                            Put up a better candidate through a transparent process next time and stop the hysterics that alienate the majority of the population. Denying the reality of the poor quality of the candidate and continuing to be loud about things that only are believed in extremist bubbles is how you get even more of what you do not want. Remember, impressing people who think just like you isn't outreach, it's insulating and isolating.

                                                                                                                            Oh, and banish "Latinx" from existence. It's crazy how much damage that one little letter did and how tone deaf those who use it continue to be.

                                                                                                                            • Sylamore 5 months ago
                                                                                                                              Disclaimer: I didn't vote for Trump/Vance and I'm deeply uncomfortable with the stuff happening with DOGE in particular.

                                                                                                                              All the republicans have to do for the 2026 midterms and Vance for 2028 is play clips from the DNC Officer election process that took place over the weekend as campaign ads.

                                                                                                                              Many of my friends can only perceive the election outcome and the actions currently taking place from a place of identity based policies. Virtually everyone I know outside of that circle and many inside that circle who keep their mouths shut are tired of that being THE focus.

                                                                                                                              • scarface_74 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                This is some of the out of touch stuff that comes from the DNC that is toxic to a large part of America.

                                                                                                                                “Our rules specify that when we have a non-binary candidate or officer, the non-binary individual is counted as neither male nor female, and the remaining six offices must be gender balanced with the results of the previous four elections. Our elected officers are currently two male and two female. In order to be gender balanced… we must elect one male, one female, and one person of any gender."

                                                                                                                                I am the furthest thing from an “aggrieved Rural Christian Evangelical Conservative” - none of those adjectives apply to me.

                                                                                                                                They also said “So, I’m going to have a show of hands. How many of you believe that racism and misogyny played a role in Vice President Harris”. Did it play role? Yes. I’m a Black guy and I know a few Black men that didn’t vote for her just because of that.

                                                                                                                                But just like Christians and traditional Republicans held their nose and voted for Trump the first time.

                                                                                                                                Enough of America voted for Obama twice. Obama never made it about race. But then again, we had decent Republican candidates like Romney and McCain (who shut it down anytime it came up).

                                                                                                                                Harris lost because she was a continuation of Biden and was complicit in hiding the fact that Biden was losing his mental faculties

                                                                                                                                • dinkumthinkum 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                  [flagged]
                                                                                                                                • scarface_74 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                  [flagged]
                                                                                                                                  • tlackemann 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                    [flagged]
                                                                                                                                    • big-green-man 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                      Don't listen and keep losing and pontificating as to why seems to be the chosen path for many people right now.
                                                                                                                                  • big-green-man 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                    > the liberals were ruining our country

                                                                                                                                    I think their grievances are more detailed than that.

                                                                                                                                    They didn't pretend not to listen. They genuinely want what is currently happening and are very happy about it.

                                                                                                                                    • vibrio 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                      Edited to zero
                                                                                                                                      • redleggedfrog 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                        [flagged]
                                                                                                                                        • scarface_74 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                          Not when his supporters literally think he was sent by God.
                                                                                                                                      • hunglee2 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                        [flagged]
                                                                                                                                        • bentt 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                          Yeah this is my read too. This is what people asked for. Elon has shown an affinity for creative destruction of entrenched bureaucracies.

                                                                                                                                          Curious what the red line is for congressional republicans.

                                                                                                                                          • nonchalantsui 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                            > Trump was voted in to blow up the entrenched bureaucratic state

                                                                                                                                            None of the exit polls makes this claim.

                                                                                                                                            • big-green-man 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                              The fact that he campaigned on it, brought Musk along and put him on stage to make speeches about it, and even named the "department" before the election and then won seems pretty compelling to me. Open and shut case I'd say.
                                                                                                                                              • nonchalantsui 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                If any of those were reasons for them voting, it would have shown in the exit polls when they were asked.

                                                                                                                                                It was not.

                                                                                                                                          • binary_slinger 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                            [flagged]
                                                                                                                                            • AnimalMuppet 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                              > P.S. Only cowards downvote.

                                                                                                                                              I downvote obvious shills, deliberately pretending to not understand peoples' point, putting words in others' mouths, personal attacks and abuse, and blatant incivility (and maybe a few others that don't come to mind right now). I don't think that makes me a coward.

                                                                                                                                              • soupfordummies 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                My cynical take is... Trump admin doesn't care and his base doesn't even know the extent of what is going on. Spend some time in the Fox News & co. echo chamber and it's really astounding how much they just DON'T report on at all.
                                                                                                                                                • walterbell 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                  > his base doesn't even know the extent of what is going on

                                                                                                                                                  Twitter has realtime status updates and feedback from said base—and others.

                                                                                                                                                  • latentcall 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                    The MAGA people in my family don’t have Twitter. They’re over 60 and watch Fox News. Fox News is not reporting on a lot of this stuff.
                                                                                                                                                • IamLoading 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                  If you realize the amount of one-sided misinformations the older administration was sharing. I find it very disingenious that they are taking a high-road during the current fiasco.
                                                                                                                                                  • BlueTemplar 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                    Trump likely has other plans than to give up power willingly (again).
                                                                                                                                                    • archagon 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                      Who in the Trump administration is professional?
                                                                                                                                                    • mynameyeff 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                      [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                      • Apreche 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                        [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                        • Kim_Bruning 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                          Ironically, the Republican Party was founded as an anti-slavery party in 1854. Abraham Lincoln was the first republican president.
                                                                                                                                                        • walmartwagie 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                          [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                          • honeybadger1 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                            [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                            • gandalfgeek 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                              [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                              • maximilianburke 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                Just becauase you choose not to understand how government works does not mean it isn't transparent.
                                                                                                                                                                • piva00 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                  It's quite disheartening how the messaging is regurgitated like GP's comment. It's the fourth or fifth comment that I've read in the past day on HN repeating the same empty platitudes.

                                                                                                                                                                  I said before and I'll keep repeating: if even what was supposedly the well-educated cohort of the American population, the ones accessing this forum, are falling for this then I've lost the vast majority of hope I had for the USA.

                                                                                                                                                                  Even the ones with full access to education, and knowledge are choosing to be this stupid... I can't imagine how it is for the uneducated.

                                                                                                                                                                  Carl Sagan was absolutely right, it came a time for his children and grandchildren to experience the darkness of anti-intellectualism.

                                                                                                                                                                • _DeadFred_ 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                  Since Trumpers only seem to care about theirs and what they can get. In simple terms if Trump is successful it means we are not a nation of laws but a nation of dictates from on high. That is not a stable nation. No one will invest in that nation's stock markets. No one will buy their bonds. No one will use their currency as a reserve currency.
                                                                                                                                                                  • rukuu001 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                    This is the frustrating part.

                                                                                                                                                                    No one thinks about the new system, new precedents and new norms being created right now, and what the next leader can do with it.

                                                                                                                                                                    Can no supporter of this approach imagine what happens the next time their political enemy is in power?

                                                                                                                                                                    • __d 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                      Perhaps they prefer to imagine that their political enemies are never able to achieve power again? Same imaginative effort, but much more satisfying.
                                                                                                                                                                • throwacct 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                  [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                  • waltercool 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                    [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                    • piva00 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                      The big assumption is thinking nothing else changes and that all consequences of the EOs are immediately reverted when disassembled.

                                                                                                                                                                      You're in for a rude awakening.

                                                                                                                                                                      • waltercool 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                        While I'm not truly someone who agrees with Democracy, I do abide with the established rules.

                                                                                                                                                                        That means, everything you do as a long term solution, needs to be approved by executive, legislative and judiciary systems. This is how every healthy Democratic Republic works.

                                                                                                                                                                        If you have policies made by executive order, it means only executive power have approved them, which is partially an autocratic policy. This is not new, and constantly abused by Democrats and Republicans over the year.

                                                                                                                                                                        Because USAID was created by Autocratic rule and did not passed by legislative and/or judiciary approval, I think it's fair to be dismissed by any other president, congress or judiciary any time.

                                                                                                                                                                        If the people think the government should keep growing up and spending lot more tax payer money, sure, but make it approved by the people, not by the president (or prime minister at other countries).

                                                                                                                                                                    • aaron695 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                      [dead]
                                                                                                                                                                      • nerdright 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                        [flagged]
                                                                                                                                                                        • scarface_74 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                          That is not mathematically sound. Government employees only make up a tiny percentage of the US budget especially if you don’t include the military.

                                                                                                                                                                          And how is killing the IRS going to help balance the budget?

                                                                                                                                                                          • throwarayes 5 months ago
                                                                                                                                                                            I don’t think you can have any impact on US spending without entitlement reform - almost all medicaid/medicare - or decreasing the defense budget

                                                                                                                                                                            All these other agencies are small potatoes.