Of Course It's a Coup

144 points by oxley 5 months ago | 44 comments
  • oxley 5 months ago
    For context, the author is a historian specialized in the mechanisms of authoritarianism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Snyder
    • jmclnx 5 months ago
      If it is a coup, it can be easily stopped if Congress and the Courts get off their butts and do something. How about force Musk to testify under oath in Congress.

      Oh, it was tried but the GOP blocked it.

      • iJohnDoe 5 months ago
        That’s the whole point of a coup. That’s how it works. That’s the scariest piece about all of it. The people that can stop it aren’t doing anything. They are afraid. They don’t want to be on the losing side. Maybe they tell themselves if they do nothing then they can stay where they are and work to fix things from within. If they speak up then they get thrown out. It’s better to say nothing. However, they most likely never had a spine to begin with or they simply agree with what’s happening. Or worse, they don’t want to give up their cushy life and don’t care who gets hurt.

        Any president can lose their minds and do crazy things. That’s nothing to worry about. We have systems in place to solve that. What you’re seeing is the system failing and our elected people doing nothing for the purpose of saving their own skin.

        • Tostino 5 months ago
          Bunch of sycophants who are willing to sell out our democracy for some twitter likes.

          Edit: The post is flagged. Glad we have nothing to worry about. No discussion necessary.

        • insane_dreamer 5 months ago
          Not to mention this same president allowed people who did attempt a violent coup (of the "usual" kind) to get out of jail despite being convicted. (And despite previous assurances, i.e., from Vance that "of course" violent offenders would not be freed.)

          And the GOP-controlled Senate just stood by.

          • kcplate 5 months ago
            > previous assurances, i.e., from Vance

            JD Vance isn’t the president and everybody who was paying attention in 2016-2020 should realize that Trump listens only to Trump.

            Not sure what you think the senate could have done about it…the president has the authority to pardon and he literally did it hours after he was inaugurated.

            • psadauskas 5 months ago
              Trump listens to the last person who talked to him. You can find superclips of his schedule, and then giving a speech or press conference parroting the same ideas of the people he met with earlier that day. Then a couple days later saying the opposite, because he met with someone else that day.
          • monetus 5 months ago
            One torment on an individual level, is that none of us have any particular agency to do anything about it. Not alone, not even with many. Overwhelming numbers accompanied by intense societal disfunction could, maybe, possibly work. Signs and angry chants won't stop these loons. Strategic occupations might help, like MLK overburdening jails during sit-ins, but even that is an annoyance they will put down violently if it inconveniences people in the west wing. Be very careful.
            • monetus 5 months ago
              *dysfunction
              • scarface_74 5 months ago
                You seem to be under the impression that this isn’t what the majority wants? You also have the owner of one social media company embedded in the White House and the other just paid tribute to Trump to “settle a lawsuit” as well as ABC, CNN and CBS bowing to him and paying him off to “settle a lawsuit”.

                The opposition are a bunch of disorganized wimps that don’t know how to play dirty. They are still playing by the old rules.

                Yes I’m well aware of civil rights history. My still living parents grew up in the Jim Crow south.

                • t-writescode 5 months ago
                  Even r/Conservative is freaking out about various bits of what is being done. Most of them seemed to think that the tariffs against Canada were a bad idea. Same with the Trail of Tears in Gaza the president is talking about doing.
                  • scarface_74 5 months ago
                    Reddit is not the real world. In the real world, everyone in power is supporting him or staying quiet.

                    Even Democratic Governors are laying low.

                    https://apnews.com/article/trump-democrats-governors-electio...

                    The “Fifth estate” isn’t helping either:

                    - ABC News is owned by Disney and Disney doesn’t want to have a fight with Trump after they already lost a fight with mini-Trump (Desantis). I happen to live 10 miles away from Disney

                    - CNN is owned by Discovery/TimeWarner who needs the administration not to block whatever merger they are trying to make next.

                    - CBS is owned by Paramount Global is also trying to make a merger deal that that don’t want the government to block.

                    And why would you think conservatives care about Gaza? A large majority of them are Evangelical Christian and see saving Israel as a step in the second coming of Christ and the rapture (not exaggerating at all).

                    As far as Trail of Tears, Native Americans are constantly worried about getting rounded up by ICE because ICE can’t tell the difference between them and Mexicans.

                    https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/tribal-nations-urge-ci...

              • tobr 5 months ago
                @dang Why is this repeatedly getting flagged?
                • oxley 5 months ago
                  I emailed hn@ycombinator.com asking why this was flagged and did not get an answer.
                • Trasmatta 5 months ago
                  It's a coup that is being allowed and empowered by the party that already controls all 3 branches of government. It's very clear what's happening: what's less clear to me is how to stop it.

                  EDIT: this post keeps getting flagged. The techbros who are currently destroying our democracy are upset that they're being called out.

                  • throwaway5752 5 months ago
                    The current US president was voted for by just 23.1% of the US population. I am not adjusting for eligible voters, but there is no sweeping mandate regardless of what anyone would have you believe.

                    They are certainly trying to make it seem that way. Bluster tricks fools. What to do about is to call your representatives, boycott companies if necessary, and cast an informed vote in local, state, and federal elections every chance you have.

                    And it is shameful this submission was flagged successfully. It is a high quality, factual, and relevant article. I'm embarrassed to be a member of this site today.

                    • scarface_74 5 months ago
                      The eligible voters who didn’t vote also made a decision. But if you are in a deep red state or deep blue state, why vote with the way that the electoral college works?
                      • kreetx 5 months ago
                        Are you able to consider that others have an opposing opinion to yours?
                        • throwaway5752 5 months ago
                          Do you have a more substantiative point than this?

                          To answer your question, yes I do. To try to guess what you are talking about, I'd say it's "Bluster tricks fools".

                          I'm not saying everyone that disagrees with this administrations actions are fools, far from it. But they are governing by press release of administrative action. They could do everything they are doing quietly, but they are not. It is clear they are trying to create a "shock and awe" type reaction. This is by definition aimed at lower information populations who are impressed by performative actions.

                          I also know that some disagree with me, and respect that. At least 23% of the US public, and likely much more. I'm sure many of them are intelligent and decent people. However, we have a system of rules. When that system of rules is disregarded, bad things happen to societies. So I would prefer they make their policy changes through the existing system rather that break laws, as it is widely considered they are doing.

                          Please let me know if you had a different point in your brief message.

                      • sebazzz 5 months ago
                        It is really the fault of the US being a presidential system rather than a parlementary system in combination with district voting system. This allows for one person to easily take hold of democracy - if that person does not respect democracy. It went well so far, but that is despite social media - not because of it.

                        In the Netherlands we really dodged a bullet on this, post WWII the UK and US had an example function when it came to democracy. The democratic D66 party attempted to transform the Netherlands to such a system but it didn’t go through. We still have a proportial voted parlementary system, which luckily allowed populist and radical parties BBB and PVV not to take too much hold on our democracy - and they are likely on their way out.

                      • Tostino 5 months ago
                        It looks like this post is unflagged finally.

                        I left this comment on another version that was also flagged, so I figured i'll repost it here:

                        I took the time to write an email to both of my senators, and congress person (i'm in FL, they are all R's).

                        Absolutely unconscionable for them to abdicate their responsibilities and oath to the constitution.

                        I don't expect it to change any minds, but some pressure is never a bad thing.

                        If anyone wants to use it as inspiration to write their own: https://gist.github.com/Tostino/6cb89b58ca4070ab7520a64b5ac7...

                        edit: I mean...Musk isn't even denying what it is: https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1887258455037387257

                        • mostlysimilar 5 months ago
                          Email is not nearly as effective as a phone call. Seriously. CALL THEM, don't just send an email into the void.
                          • Tostino 5 months ago
                            Yeah, planning on doing that today.
                          • hoten 5 months ago
                            that gist 404s
                        • insane_dreamer 5 months ago
                          Flagged again; wtf HN?
                          • 5 months ago
                            • nathanaldensr 5 months ago
                              [flagged]
                              • computerthings 5 months ago
                                gleeful displays of cruelty and obedience

                                will age like black milk

                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todesfuge

                                • kreetx 5 months ago
                                  As an European, I don't quite get what people are complaining about, Trump is doing what he said he will do and has a mandate for it. Of course the Democrat university professor will try to rally up people.
                                  • Tostino 5 months ago
                                    We have a separation of powers for a reason. This is throwing out the main power entrusted to our Congress. Why would any future administration care about what Congress has to say after this precedent is set?

                                    He also doesn't have a mandate, he won by relatively thin margins just like all of our recent elections.

                                    If they want to do this and not destroy our democracy, they just need to pass a bill to make the changes they want.

                                    • anon2549 5 months ago
                                      > has a mandate for it

                                      He certainly has no mandate for anything. He only barely won.

                                      • kreetx 5 months ago
                                        Is the typical presidential win much more substantial?
                                  • zfg 5 months ago
                                    [flagged]
                                    • scarface_74 5 months ago
                                      Musk doesn’t care. Tesla stock has always been unaligned with its revenue. Trump supporters and his supporters will just buy on the dip
                                      • zfg 5 months ago
                                        He'll care. It will sting him right in the narcissism.

                                        But it's certainly true he won't change or improve.

                                    • yapyap 5 months ago
                                      Can’t get over “Skibidi Hitler”

                                      anyway yeah, it’s been clear.

                                      There really wasn’t any nuance in what he did.

                                      • tim333 5 months ago
                                        Trump delegated to Musk to do this. I'm not sure if it's gone beyond his legal powers but the fact that the recently elected president delegated things to his assistant is a weak argument that we have a coup.
                                        • Tostino 5 months ago
                                          You would have not said a word about Harris appointing George Soros to a similar position to make unilateral decision over things to which the president isn't supposed to control?
                                          • tim333 5 months ago
                                            I might have criticized it and am not wild about Musk but I don't think either is a coup in the usual sense of the word. If Musk had taken over that could be but I'm pretty sure Trump is still in charge.

                                            See Trump's take on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuPr2-T_Z_U

                                            • Tostino 5 months ago
                                              It would still be a similar form of coup (IMO) if Trump was doing it himself. We have three co-equal branches of government for a reason, and the power of the purse lies with Congress. The president not faithfully executing the will of congress when it comes to spending is the underlying issue.

                                              If congress wants to destroy all of these institutions and agencies they have created and funded over the years, they need to do that. Not allow the executive branch to wield dictatorial powers.

                                              Why would any future president care at all what bills congress passes going forward? Just do as you wish, there are no consequences. Is that really the system you want to live under?