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Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

268 points by tech234a 3 months ago | 282 comments

samiv 3 months ago
I'm also 100% convinced Microsoft will introduce mandatory code signing at some point and make it so that you can only ever install software from Windows Store.
They are envious of the Google and Apple walled gardens/cashcows and are now determined to turn Windows into one.
Windows is no longer a product for users, the users of Windows are the product for Microsoft to be shoved into the Azure sales funnel.
- signal11 3 months ago
  This misses how Microsoft makes money from Windows. Taking a cut of apps isn’t that useful because most people don’t install many apps. Of course it’s still welcome revenue, especially for games, but Steam has too much goodwill there, and Epic won’t still idly by (and Adobe etc in other domains).
  Instead Microsoft is trying to upsell cloud storage, backup and ad-free email (along with Office apps) with Microsoft 365. And on the biz side they’re getting into the biz of offering managed patched online Windows VDIs, kind of like Citrix.
  Also Microsoft Store-only Windows is a deal killer for Windows in businesses. A lot of specialised LOB (line of business) apps run on Windows and the Store is a non-starter for those. And in home contexts there’s a bunch of legacy apps that people keep Windows for, dropping support for them will mean switching to ChromeOS or macOS just got easier.
  So yeah — I fully agree they’ll absolutely shove you in into the Azure or M365 sales funnel, and individual users no longer feel like a priority. But non-store apps aren’t quite dead yet.
  - free_bip 3 months ago
    The app-store-only restriction would likely be for home edition. If you want custom apps, you'll need pro or business licenses.
- agilob 3 months ago
  That's the main reason why Valve is investing in Linux and Steam Deck.
  - eru 3 months ago
    Apropos, running Steam on my Archlinux Desktop with Windows compatibility turned on works really, really well. Much better than what I remembered from the bad old days of trying to get stuff running in Wine.
    - consp 3 months ago
      Wine and it's alternatives have greatly profited from valve going this route and as a result all software runs better. It's a gradual improvement over time and we are past the early stages. I'm still running a gaming PC on windows but that is going to end quite soon if Microsoft keeps doing these things.
    - nobodyandproud 3 months ago
      Linux Mint with Lutris and Wine.
      I completely removed Windows from all of my personal notebooks and workstations.
    - tmikaeld 3 months ago
      I second that, everything "just works" as you'd expect it to.
      If StreamOS can get widespread and they start to introduce desktop apps to the store, I think they can take some market share.
    - throwaway48476 3 months ago
      Valve started with win8, almost 15 years ago now.
  - danielktdoranie 3 months ago
    The Steam Deck has done well, and releasing SteamOS for free so people can install it on their own PCs is great, but I think they should make a “Steam PC” they could sell. The majority of gamers aren’t technical and buy pre-built PCs. A Steam PC with Steam OS pre-installed would make it easy for these people to game on Linux and pump up the Linux gaming share of the gaming market.
    - woleium 3 months ago
      the steam pc is the newly announced xbox, no?
- donnachangstein 3 months ago
  > I'm also 100% convinced Microsoft will introduce mandatory code signing at some point and make it so that you can only ever install software from Windows Store
  2017 called. It wants Windows S Mode back.
  Needless to say it still isn't very popular. But this has been around for <checks notes> 8 years now
  - samiv 3 months ago
    Yep, the technology is already there.
    Just a question of time before they flip the switch for good and force it down everyone's throat and call it "enhanced security and user experience".
    - ranger_danger 3 months ago
      There are so many legacy apps being used in the corporate world, I don't see this realistically ever happening.
    - throwaway48476 3 months ago
      Windows S failed hard so they have a new strategy. Every new CPU ships with M$'s Pluton root of trust. For 'security' everything will have to be signed. They consider the user to be the threat actor. Eventually they will charge a percsnt fee for using their signing service.
  - swat535 3 months ago
    Where is the EU when you need it?
    It’s only a matter of time before Microsoft forces everyone with local accounts to switch to a Microsoft Account just to access their own machines. I wouldn’t be surprised if, in the future, local accounts are completely disabled, except maybe on specialized enterprise versions of the OS.
    I'm exhausted by the anti-consumer behavior of American companies, constantly restricting user choice and access, undermining privacy, and hiking up prices, all in the name of "profit".
    - samiv 3 months ago
      Profit?
      You mean "enhanced security and user experience"? /s
  - KeplerBoy 3 months ago
    I actually would consider S Mode if it supported steam and it's games. For serious computing I boot into Linux anyways.
    - ndsipa_pomu 3 months ago
      For serious gaming, I use my Linux powered Steam Deck
  - pxoe 3 months ago
    It's been near a decade of them trying and failing (or over a decade, if one'd look at windows 8 and its apps as part of some plan), that at some point this 'what if they lock everything down!!' thing just sounds like a FUD, which is kinda ironic. And the 'they're locking down installs!!' thing too, every time they make a change it gets to the front page here, and yet it still remains circumventable (just use Rufus). Years have gone by and the actual "locking down" of it still hasn't arrived.
- throwaway48476 3 months ago
  They tried with windows S. No one bought it and if they did by mistake they returned it.
  >Windows is no longer a product for users, the users of Windows are the product for Microsoft to be shoved into the Azure sales funnel.
  So true. I won't be running win11 outside of a VM and anything but win11 IoT. You know where to find it...
- 0xmarcin 3 months ago
  I highly doubt it, Windows is known for its stellar backward compatibility. Code signing means a lot of older software, that is still in use, would not be able to install or run. This is not going to happen (at least in the enterprise).
  - samiv 3 months ago
    I have mad respect for Microsoft engineers for the compatibility work that they've done over the past decades. It is indeed superb that you can take even today an old Win32 executable and run it and it'll just work.
    But I expect the new leadership will not put much value on this. I imagine it'd play out that first to "to enhance the security and improve the UX" they'll start a shoving a bunch of nagging dialogs in the users face "this app is not safe" etc.
    Then they'll add a flag to enable "unsafe mode" where the user can run unverified / unsigned code.
    Then finally they'll just nuke the flag.
    After all requiring that the ecosystem with the most "important" apps such as their own office suite, slack, adobe etc. grind out new versions with digital signing is not out of alignment with these companies incentives and development cycles either.
    In fact I would not find it surprising if these companies would actually be approached by Microsoft to participate in any such scheme and get offered some kind of "discount" or reward (whether it's app store discount or whatever else) and these companies would only see it strengthening their own moats against any possible competition.
    And I'm talking about the consumer use case, not the corporate.
    - anthk 3 months ago
      You don't know how many ad-hoc legacy apps based on Java/C# are out there. Zillions. If you want to give GNU/Linux a huge chunk of share (Java and C# code from early 00's/2010 will run everywhere), MS would face a huge disaster and billions of loses.
  - throwaway48476 3 months ago
    Users value backwards compatability. Users aren't the customers anymore and don't drive KPIs.
  - hulitu 3 months ago
    > Windows is known for its stellar backward compatibility.
    was
  - fph 3 months ago
    They can just sandbox old applications, like they did with DOS ones.
- bitwize 3 months ago
  This is likely why the TPM2 requirement is a thing for Windows 11: Microsoft wants to migrate all Windows users onto a hardware base with nigh-uncrackable security/DRM protection, such that everything from power on to application is signed, approved code. For "security".
  And people will buy it. Because "general purpose computing" is a niche feature for nerds. (Astronaut 2: Always has been.) And it presents enough problems and extra work that most consumers woyld gladly give it up. Most consumers just want something thet can do Facebook/Excel/Spotify/Netflix/games with.
- grishka 3 months ago
  Mandatory code signing is meaningless without secure boot though, which can't be made mandatory on x86 systems.
  - throwaway48476 3 months ago
    MS's pluton is in every new CPU.
    - grishka 3 months ago
      And? Just, uh, boot without secure boot and patch things until they work again without enforcing code signing? The only way this sort of thing could be possibly partially enforced is by remote attestation for apps that depend on a server to function. So do what iOS jailbreaks did, except you don't need a vulnerability to start because secure boot will always be optional.
  - bitwize 3 months ago
    Who decided that secure boot can't be made mandatory on x86 systems?
    Microsoft.
    They can reverse their decision at any time. Inasmuch as you are able to boot Linux on your PC, it's only because Microsoft deigns to allow it.
    - charcircuit 3 months ago
      >only because Microsoft deigns to allow it
      Other operating systems could still collaborate with manufacturers to have their key be trusted.
  - jychang 3 months ago
    Good thing they’re trying to move off x86, then
  - theandrewbailey 3 months ago
    I was under the impression that Secure Boot was a lot of the reason behind Windows 11's TPM 2.0 requirement.
    - grishka 3 months ago
      That requirement isn't technical though. It's purely a marketing one. You can still install Windows 11 on a TPM-less machine and, for all intents and purposes, it'll work just fine.
- cedws 3 months ago
  That would never work, they would have to have some kind of override. Microsoft doesn’t have that kind of leverage over Windows users because they don’t have tight vertical integration. If Windows 12 enforced that, users would just stay on Windows 11 and MS’ leverage would decrease even further.
  - PeterStuer 3 months ago
    Windows 12 Enterprise would have the option, Windows 13 Enterpise would remove the option but allow for a signed "legacy" sandbox. Windows 14 Enterprise would have no option.
    They can play the long game.
    - jajko 3 months ago
      Sure, if we talk about decade or more, companies can and will adapt. They can run several apps in VM, or just migrate to Unix. I've worked at bank who was through and through completely Linux including all front desk people, in 2010. If rigid banks can do it, everybody can.
  - sshine 3 months ago
    I can’t believe people didn’t stay on Windows 7. It seems to have slid into some always-online ad-filled cloud hellhole since. Office365 is worse than Office 2000. This is the OEM strategy still at play. You gotta hand it to Bill Gates for capturing PCs for decades. People truly don’t care how poor their operating system behaves, because your only other option is to buy a Mac.
    - jasode 3 months ago
      >I can’t believe people didn’t stay on Windows 7.
      Normal mainstream users can't stay on very old operating systems like Windows 7 because they'll eventually be forced to install newer software that's not compatible with it. Outside actors other than Microsoft force os upgrades.
      - buy a new printer and it only has drivers for newer os like Windows 10/11 and later
      - need for installing newer software like latest versions of Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox, Adobe suite, TurboTax 2024, etc. They don't install on Win7. For Windows 7, the last version of Chrome was January 2023. Last version of Firefox was August 2024.
      So setting aside commercial apps like Adobe, TurboTax, etc. -- why can't a user just stay with old version of Mozilla Firefox that's compatible with Win7 and turn off updates?!? Because bank websites like JP Morgan will block the user with an error "You need to upgrade your web browser" because the SSL/TLS encryption algorithms in old Firefox versions are obsolete.
      Deliberately trying to freeze your computer on Windows 7 or Windows XP means relegating it into a "museum piece" that becomes less and less useful for practical real-world tasks. That's ok for an isolated machine that runs old video games but no good for online banking.
    - lightedman 3 months ago
      "I can’t believe people didn’t stay on Windows 7."
      Microsoft forced Win10 down people's throats. I had all of my machines Windows Update processes turned off and somehow it STILL got onto my systems. I suspect Skype was the mechanism through which Microsoft did this, as they owned Skype then and I still used it.
    - 3np 3 months ago
      Some do, I guess.
      https://github.com/i486girl/win7-sp2
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43445103
    - gloosx 3 months ago
      Staying on some windows 10 lite-repack for about 8 years now. Automatically activated. Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Paint. Windows-7-like start menu. No UWP apps, cortana, onenote, onedrive, even no freaking microsoft Edge. No app store. Not a single moving pixel, ad or notification , or another jumpscaring layout when system starts. Everything installs/works perfectly, perfect system.
      I have no idea why people even consider updating, must be some really weird case.
      There is zero new value in the latest Windows versions, just plain nothing new, there is really no reason to switch.
    - d_tr 3 months ago
      Too much fuss with community hacks to maybe get stuff working and end up having wasted time in any case. There is too much garbage to deal with in modern computing already. And some features are just not available with or without hacks.
      If I want to use a decent OS, I can do most of my development on Fedora or Arch or some other Linux distro at my workplace.
      For proprietary stuff that won't work there, honestly, Windows 11 is not that bad as far as Windows go. I do not get ads, I use a local account without problems and I can do development actually decently with PowerShell, vcpkg, VS Code which Microsoft offers for free and which work on all platforms.
      TL;DR: There are hills with a much better view to die on.
  - schroeding 3 months ago
    Until they need new hardware, for which there will (and can) be no drivers anymore, as Microsoft stops crosssigning them in the Hardware Dev Center after a while for old Windows versions.
    Microsoft does have the leverage in this case, as long as folks want to continue using Windows.
- octacat 3 months ago
  Would not fly. Developers would not go into the store. Because everyone knows, that 30% tax would be next (basically it is the current situation on the Mac, apple could pull the switch on gatekeeper any time). And, because a lot of modern apps are just electron wrappers, people would just move to the web versions for everything. Which means killing their own platform.
- xattt 3 months ago
  Isn’t that the point of Pluton?
  (1) https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/hardware-...
  - lozenge 3 months ago
    And the user-facing feature Smart App Control- https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/applicati...
- octacat 3 months ago
  Similar why gatekeeper exists on Mac. This would mean that old software would stop to work, though. Which is a bit anti-microsoft politics. Without running all the old unsigned software Win is not Win anymore.
- throwaway290 3 months ago
  Should be mentioned this is way worse than Apple
  Having to use an account to get apps from app store (Apple) vs. having to use an account to install and use the OS in the first place (Microsoft) = not even a a competition
  - djaychela 3 months ago
    Until you need to download something from the app store (happened to me the other day on a mac I wiped and then needed to bring on holiday so now I need to go through the process again afterwards)
    - freehorse 3 months ago
      Can you install anything from the windows store without a Microsoft account, or from google play without a google one? I assume this is already the state of affairs since ever, but except iOS all the rest allow you to install stuff outside their stores.
    - throwaway290 3 months ago
      Irrelevant. You can still use the OS and run any code you want.
  - herbst 3 months ago
    You cannot even develop or use anything that needs a compiler without siging up and logging in to apple to install dev tools.
    So nah, same.
    - Aaron2222 3 months ago
      The "Command Line Tools for Xcode" don't require an Apple ID to install (and provides a C/C++/Objective-C/Swift toolchain (LLVM/Clang) and things like Make and Git). Not to mention other compilers not provided by Apple that you can just download and install. And yes, while you do need an Apple ID to download Xcode from Apple, you don't need to be signed into macOS with it (you can download it from the Apple Developer site).
    - throwaway290 3 months ago
      Nah. In one case no one prevents you from torrenting third party Xcode at your own risk. You can run any code you want on your device. But in the other case you can't even use the OS. Cope however you want but QED.
      It's not perfect, it sucks, but it's better
- facile3232 3 months ago
  > They are envious of the Google and Apple walled gardens/cashcows and are now determined to turn Windows into one.
  Which is perplexing, because this is essentially the opposite strategy than what gave windows value to begin with.
  - tonyedgecombe 3 months ago
    It would be amusing for Microsoft to end up in a situation where developers don’t want to target Windows anymore, just like Apple in the 90’s.
    Perhaps they think it doesn’t matter once everything is in the cloud.
    - debugnik 3 months ago
      We're most of the way there with the switch to web apps and their native wrappers, even Microsoft isn't using their own UI toolkits anymore.
      The only segments left targeting Windows as a platform are games, replacements/extensions to the OS tools, and a bunch of legacy .NET LOB apps. And since the Steam Deck and clones, Wine/Proton are (very) slowly becoming the actual target for games rather than Windows.
    - extraduder_ire 3 months ago
      I think that long before that developers will still be targeting the windows APIs, even if they're not intending their software for windows.
  - heresie-dabord 3 months ago
    > Which is perplexing, because this is essentially the opposite strategy than what gave windows value to begin with.
    Consider how much has changed since the first 25 years of MSFT. Both in business and in life in general.
soraminazuki 3 months ago
It's such an absurd lie. If Microsoft's idea of security is to force its users to authenticate online for a local account, they should never be allowed in the software industry at all. They're needlessly and dramatically increasing the attack surface of one of the most security critical software running on user devices.
- userbinator 3 months ago
  It's an argument for increased security in the same way that they consider uploading the contents of your hard drive to their servers to scan for "malware" (and other undesirable-to-them content) is. Corporate authoritarianism.
  - miohtama 3 months ago
    The trick is that most of the users need this service. Before Windows Defender was built in you had to buy an anti virus software from sneak oil Windows security industry, and likely get somehow scammed in process.
    The same companies sell anti virus for Android today.
    Also most users is not all.
    - badsectoracula 3 months ago
      But this made Windows Defender an actually good and useful feature for the users.
      Requiring an online account to use Windows isn't really the same thing.
    - hulitu 3 months ago
      > Before Windows Defender was built in you had to buy an anti virus software from sneak oil Windows security industry, and likely get somehow scammed in process.
      And now you get the same from Microsoft. Clearly an inprovement.
  - soraminazuki 3 months ago
    I guess Microsoft has to secure their "own" property, the devices the hostile so-called users bought and paid for!
- charcircuit 3 months ago
  Microsoft's idea of security is moving people away from local accounts protected by passwords and to Microsoft accounts protected Windows Hello.
  The Windows Hello PIN is protected by the TPM. This means you can't brute force it like a password could be.
  - soraminazuki 3 months ago
    That has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic, which is forcing online authentication. You can't possibly argue that needlessly forcing online authentication makes user safe.
    - charcircuit 3 months ago
      The topic isn't about forcing online authentication. It's about improving security from having users use a Microsoft account. The security improvement of using a Microsoft account comes from Windows Hello.
  - GoblinSlayer 3 months ago
    To brute force a password, attacker needs full access to the system, guessing the password won't give them more access.
    - charcircuit 3 months ago
      No, they don't. They can clone your hard disk and use a different computer. A TPM based pin makes that approach impossible and you must have access to the system itself.
- grishka 3 months ago
  It's the entire industry's idea of security for the last 10 years or so that the company who made the thing is unquestionably more trustworthy than the users themselves.
- CrossVR 3 months ago
  And for what? Make number go up? If it's just another data collection scheme the at least I could understand why.
  - bboygravity 3 months ago
    Because the NSA pays them to.
    Why did they do to Skype what they did (first turn it from p2p to centralized and spyable and then just ignore it and let it die)?
    Same reason.
    - sterlind 3 months ago
      (Opinions are my own, I have no inside knowledge.)
      I vaguely remember hearing that P2P Skype was the bane of sysadmins' existence. Skype would elect clients on high-bandwidth networks as supernodes. This tended to be business customers - the very organizations MS wanted to attract. Skype's prodigious hole-punching ability made it difficult to throttle, so it got banned from a lot of enterprises. MS essentially hosted the supernodes on Azure, which centralized it.
      As for encryption, on the other hand, Wikipedia says MS specifically added the ability to eavesdrop for law enforcement agencies, though apparently Skype had already added a backdoor for the NSA before MS bought them: https://news.softpedia.com/news/Skype-Provided-Backdoor-Acce...
    - ashoeafoot 3 months ago
      i wonder if some Estonian could justvrerelease the p2p originals . After all as america deteriorates its own influence , at some point the lawyers of the big 4 will be seen as barely disguised tendril of a hostile power in Europe . Who cares about your sales contracts if the president goes for Greenland . We might see a SkyEarthFireWater-Open source re-release one day. Just another tradewar anecdote .
- anothernewdude 3 months ago
  If windows is security critical for you, I think you've already shat the bed.
  - soraminazuki 3 months ago
    The problem is that many other people and organizations run Windows and it's absolutely security critical for them. And because we don't live in a vacuum, it's security critical for all of us.
  - consp 3 months ago
    Some windows versions have cc certification. Doesn't say much but it ticks the box some people want and call it a day.
brokegrammer 3 months ago
A while ago, I needed to get into safe mode to rescue a laptop that wouldn't boot.
Since it uses Windows 11, I originally logged in using my Microsoft Account and a Windows Hello pin.
Safe mode doesn't load wifi drivers and the laptop didn't have an ethernet port, so I couldn't log in to my Microsoft Account to get into Windows safe mode. Didn't have a dongle with ethernet port at that time, so I had to backup the drive and reinstall Windows instead.
That's why I use Linux these days.
- Szpadel 3 months ago
  wait, you need internet connection to even login? this means root cannot use computer when you do not have internet connection for any reason?
  - vishnugupta 3 months ago
    I’m not in Windows ecosystem for more than 25 years now. But I had to buy couple of windows laptops for sales team at my business. I tried very hard but windows wouldn’t allow me to set it up without first creating Microsoft Account online. I’m in Apple ecosystem, not that they are significantly different but they atleast allow me to use the system albeit in limited capacity.
    I’m seriously considering going back to Linux for my next work setup.
    - yonatan8070 3 months ago
      There was a trick to bypass the online account requirement. You press Shift+F10, which launches a command prompt, then use `oobe\bypassnro`. This reboots the system and adds a button to set up offline.
    - asa977 3 months ago
      We’ve been running our company (6ish people) solely on Fedora and it’s been a breeze, but then we’re a bunch of nerds, so not necessarily a surprise. The real test how much the Linux desktop has matured happened when I set up a fedora laptop for my parents to get around hp desperately coaxing them into some kind of subscription and an endless stream of ads/complaints from Microsoft to buy into a cloud service. After setting up the laptop and explaining the very basics of Plasma, I’ve had to deal with it again. Because with printers, it just works (tm)
    - Aaron2222 3 months ago
      > I’m in Apple ecosystem, not that they are significantly different but they atleast allow me to use the system albeit in limited capacity.
      Define "limited capacity". Other than Apple Services like iCloud, FaceTime, iMessage, Apple Music/TV, etc, it should just be the App Store that's unavailable without an Apple ID (which _is_ crippling on iOS, but not so much on macOS).
  - daveoc64 3 months ago
    >wait, you need internet connection to even login?
    No, you can log in without being connected to the internet (that obviously happens a lot on a daily basis, where people are using a laptop with no connectivity until after they sign in).
  - benhurmarcel 3 months ago
    That’s not the case. I have a Windows 11 computer around, set up with a Microsoft account and Windows Hello, and I can log in just fine without internet connection.
  - brokegrammer 3 months ago
    > you need internet connection to even login
    That's right. It sounds like a bug but this is Microsoft we're talking about here. They're probably brainstorming for ways to lock you from your own computer.
    You can solve this problem by creating an offline account with Admin privileges after setting up Windows with your online account, but most users won't do that.
    - lolsowrong 3 months ago
      This doesn’t seem true. Doesn’t LSASS cache credentials for 30 days?
- GoblinSlayer 3 months ago
  Reinstalled windows recently, now it has the window resize bug, which apparently has something to do with display sleep mode. Reportedly linux struggles with sleep modes too, but to think I should try linux for better hardware support, duh. And new windows is very fiddly, constantly tries to install new metro apps, adds them to lock screen, installs new services, runs a shit ton of services that constantly write a lot of data on the disk. Enshittification is in full overdrive now.
  - consp 3 months ago
    Linux struggles with sleep mode sometimes due to Microsoft and Intel pushing S3 into S2idle and motherboard/bios manufacturers doing the absolute minimum to support either.
    - danieldk 3 months ago
      I had the same impression, but support for new sleep modes seems to improve quickly. A few years ago I had a Gen 1 ThinkPad T14 AMD, which still had S3 sleep. A significant portion of the resumes it would come up with some devices not working (e.g. trackpad, fingerprint reader, etc.). I recently got the 5th Gen T14 AMD and the only issue I have is that the fingerprint auth takes a few seconds to come up, but other than that I haven't had any resume issues yet.
mythz 3 months ago
All these user hostile behavior finally tipped me over the edge last year after I started to get Windows 10 EOL popups. No way I was going to "upgrade" to a ad/spyware/subscription ridden MS marketing platform and be constantly nagged at to try out more of their services.
Moved to a Fedora Desktop, liberating to move back to an conflict-free OS whose primary focus is to serve its users, imagine that.
- jwrallie 3 months ago
  I've been running the Xfce spin of Fedora for the last year, and it is the most stable OS I have since forever.
  For the few programs that really need Windows, I use Qemu/KVM with Virt-Manager and Samba for sharing files.
  I wish to keep using this setup, I just hope buying hardware with good Linux support in the future does not become too difficult. I fear moving away from x86 will make things harder.
  - throwaway48476 3 months ago
    Judging by the price of Qualcomm laptops x86 isn't going away any time soon.
- atemerev 3 months ago
  Windows is a launcher for games, there is no other use for this system (correction: it still runs some specialized professional software that is too expensive to port). And now, even most of the games work on Linux too.
  - Ylpertnodi 3 months ago
    I have lots of windows (mainly music) software that I need, let alone outright purchased, and isn't available on Linux.
    - herbst 3 months ago
      I got into music production again recently. To my surprise most recommended new software is either Linux native or properly ported. See reaper for example.
      Many years ago music on Linux was hard, and years behind. Software was limited and the audio driver situation was a mess. But now you get professional software directly in the package manager and choose between several very reliable sound systems and even use the far majority of VST Plugins.
    - atemerev 3 months ago
      It is usually available on Macs. Of course, there is still some specialized software for Windows, e.g. many CADs. But all these things are now marginal. If you are a software engineer and use Windows for your work, you are now a minority.
  - rekoil 3 months ago
    I was looking to move to Linux for my gaming PC, just about pulled the plug when Respawn decided that all cheaters in Apex Legends were supposedly using Linux and decided to block Linux users from playing...
- EasyMark 3 months ago
  I've been using Xubuntu for years now,and run Windows 10 in a VM for the few things I need on there that I dont' have a linux replacement for (or cared to hack together). I'm about 99% linux and macos now, and don't miss windows at all.
JoshTriplett 3 months ago
According to the linked discussion, the underlying setting that the script set still exists, so this simply makes it less convenient.
It should absolutely be taken as a warning sign, though. Seriously, if at this point you're installing Windows and relying on the existence of that setting, you should be seeking alternatives.
- technion 3 months ago
  I've been saying the writing was on the wall for a long time. Any time someone says how easy it is to simply avoid MS account registration I've argued that it's not going to last much longer.
  Even Microsoft's current Storage Spaces Direct won't let you start a locally hosted Hyper-V VM without an Azure connection.
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 3 months ago
    What if there's an outage or somewhere you don't have reliable internet?
    - mhuffman 3 months ago
      >Fuck people that live in very rural areas!
      -Microsoft, apparently
    - Teever 3 months ago
      Then this isn't the operating system for you.
    - throwaway48476 3 months ago
      Recently Sony PSN was down for days because of a DDoS. Centralizing failure points is always a bad idea.
    - technion 3 months ago
      If you're running Microsoft Storage Spaces Direct/AzHCI and there's no internet for an extended period you can't start on premise servers.
briHass 3 months ago
Managing Windows devices at work using the online-first paradigm makes it clear what MS is trying to achieve here, but it's poorly communicated, as usual. In the M365/Entra world, the big benefit is having cloud Active Directory (Entra/AzureAD) and automated deployment (Intune/Autopilot) all integrated. For home users, you get bits and pieces of this, but it feels unnecessarily limited.
What MS wants (from a charitable interpretation), is the ability to encourage/enforce full disk encryption (Bitlocker), TPM-based MFA and TPM-backed passkeys (Windows Hello), as well as tight integration with their product suite (Office/OneDrive) and browser (Edge). Syncing settings, apps and other things between devices (or on setup) is also a win, though it's pretty basic right now.
Though silly to a technical crowd like HN, FDE for regular users requires a way to not lose all their data if they forget their password or some other issue happens with secure boot or the device. Non-technical users aren't going to understand the importance of backing up their Bitlocker recovery key, and without it, they're hosed. During online setup, MS stores this key online to the MS account, so it is recoverable.
MS isn't going to limit the integration and security they can provide by adhering to a local-only OS concept. It's not what most users actually want, and their competition (Apple, Android) does the same thing, so users are used to it. I just wish they had a light (inexpensive) version of the Entra/Intune package for home users that want to be able to manage multiple devices and get the real advantages of the online link.
notepad0x90 3 months ago
There are a lot of "workstation" type enterprise deployments where by policy, internet access is forbidden. Microsoft knows this, at least for professional and enterprise editions of Windows, I find it hard to believe an internet connection would be required, like ever.
I would also say the same about require either a live.com or M365/EntraId account for local login on AD joined systems' installations. Unless of course they require you to setup a base-image with an internet connection and then convert accounts to local-only post-install, which sounds like a typical Microsoft approach.
yonatan8070 3 months ago
Accorsing to the first comment under the OP the script just runs:
```
    reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\OOBE /v BypassNRO /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f
```
So presumably the removal of the script won't impact bypass methods used by the likes of Rufus and Ventoy.
Either way, I've been happily on Fedora for a while now, with very minimal "fuck I can't do that here"
defrost 3 months ago
Earlier on HN: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account (theverge.com)
139 points | 5 hours ago | 125 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43511073
bsdetector 3 months ago
In October when Windows 10 support ends it'll finally be the year of desktop linux.
- nullify88 3 months ago
  Well, those that are on the Windows 10 IoT LTSC builds will enjoy updates until 2032.
  https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows...
  - zakki 3 months ago
    Do you know where to buy it?
    - shepherdjerred 3 months ago
      https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
    - mkl 3 months ago
      It's hard to find information about it, but this post has quite a bit (some may be out of date): https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/bbof9s/windows_10...
    - nullify88 3 months ago
      As far as I know you need to sail across the high seas.
    - ugjka 3 months ago
      mas
- grishka 3 months ago
  I'd like to remind you that there are still millions of people around the world using Windows 7 daily. The fact that some software is no longer supported by its developer doesn't mean it stops working somehow, or becomes radioactive.
  - MYEUHD 3 months ago
    It becomes easier to exploit, as it no longer gets security updates; and vulnerabilities are publicly disclosed.
    - grishka 3 months ago
      You can't really exploit something when its attack surface is nearly nonexistent, which is the case for most people who use an outdated OS on their personal device, for example.
  - hilbert42 3 months ago
    "I'd like to remind you that there are still millions of people around the world using Windows 7 daily"
    Correct, and I am one of them!
- 3 months ago
- acuntcalleddan 3 months ago
  [flagged]
squarefoot 3 months ago
When you're forced online, you become less resistant to products and services being fed from the cloud, then computers can be produced cheaply with less storage and resources, and almost everyone will end up running dumb terminals. It doesn't happen overnight, but more and more people would rather buy a 150 bucks PC plus pay per use services rather than a 250 one that can host and run installed software, then the market would do the rest by making real computers more expensive as they transition to niche products. I'd rather start familiarizing with open and less intrusive operating systems.
ungreased0675 3 months ago
Windows 11 is the reason I’ve returned to Linux after a decade away. Microsoft doesn’t seem to be concerned about killing the golden goose. I wonder if they have data on just how much hostility users are willing to put up with?
- atemerev 3 months ago
  The golden goose is now Azure. Windows is (or will be soon) a free complementary OS to make more people use Azure services.
  - sagolikasoppor 3 months ago
    The only issue with that is when you switch to Linux, alternatives to Azure is much more compelling. I would never use Azure services unless I'm on Windows.
    - ungreased0675 3 months ago
      Could you explain this a bit more? I happen to like Azure, probably because I understand it a lot better than the other cloud platforms. What’s the connection to Linux OS?
    - atemerev 3 months ago
      Well, I do. I still like Outlook, and it works good enough as a web app. Same for OneNote. Azure as the development platform is crazy, of course. But I also have a friend who I respect much, and who is probably a better engineer than me, who likes Azure and completely unproductive with AWS, so _maybe_ that's a matter of taste. Just like tabs and spaces. I prefer spaces, but whatever.
mjmas 3 months ago
Perhaps they could actually ship some wifi/ethernet drivers with their installer then.
0dayz 3 months ago
That Xbox employee that was smugly and fanatically defending the always online fiasco way back (who ended up getting fired for defending the sales pitch) must be screaming.
zkmon 3 months ago
Good old days - when the software was a box full of floppy disks or CDs which you buy at a store and bring them home and modify registry settings etc.
Software is no longer a product like a chair and table which you can just buy and move it from the store to your home. It is more like a managed service like a utility connection. It is available for use only as long as the vendor allows it. You buy a subscription and play nice. The buyer might also not have the admin user privileges on the software they bought with their money.
The same might happen to cars and all other smart devices as well. Cars might always be connected to the car company, which might have some remote control over the car. Phones are already like this. It is a matter of time, all your home appliances are partly controlled by the companies who sold them.
Kab1r 3 months ago
Is there a good reason (other than licensing and Linux as an alternative) I shouldn't use Windows Server 202X as a Desktop OS?
- Cyphase 3 months ago
  I've heard tell that some software out there will refuse to operate on Windows Server because of licensing, like perhaps they want you to get a business license. I have no evidence at hand, but something to look into.
  - zahllos 3 months ago
    I worked at a software vendor where we would check the type of product and yes you needed our server product to run on their server product, whether or not you used the server as a server.
    Not all software does this but I also don't recall it being unusual.
- sgjohnson 3 months ago
  You don’t need to use the Server SKU. LTSC exists. It’s basically the Server version, but without any of the Server stuff.
  - kasabali 3 months ago
    To be pedantic, Server 2022 is a newer build than any Windows 10 version.
    - sgjohnson 3 months ago
      For Windows 11, all editions (11, 11 Enterprise LTSC, Server 2025) are 24H2.
- 3np 3 months ago
  IDK about today but back when I hard work that required Windows that's how I stayed sane.
- jmclnx 3 months ago
  These days there is no reason to use Windows at home. Just move to a distro like Mint or Ubuntu. It will save you money and help stop filling up Landfills.
  I am on a 10+ year old Laptop with Slackware, for desktop use it is just as fast as any modern Laptop with Windows, I would even say it is faster.
  Also you will find Libreoffice is just as good as M/S Office. Just ignore the fud. FWIW, I believe many foreign countries will start migrating to Linux and I heard that is already happening in China.
  - dharmab 3 months ago
    > These days there is no reason to use Windows at home.
    I have two, sadly.
    1. I use my Windows PC for flight simulators. While many simulators will indeed run under proton, the hardware devices (VR, joysticks, throttles, pedals, panels, etc.) usually will not, or at best run with minimal functionality.
    2. I develop cross-platform software and need a Windows PC to test that environment.
    A third for some people:
    3. There is no great alternative to certain visual media software. e.g. Affinity Photo/Adobe Photoshop has no equivalent on Linux. No, GIMP is not anywhere near equivalent- in the same way that Nano is not equivalent to Visual Studio Code.
    - jasonriddle 3 months ago
      To add onto 3, I do my taxes every year using either the desktop version of Turbo Tax or H&R Block. They only make Mac or Windows versions of their software.
      I've read online that people have attempted to use wine in order to emulate the Windows environment with no success.
  - sys_64738 3 months ago
    > These days there is no reason to use Windows at home. Just move to a distro like Mint or Ubuntu. It will save you money and help stop filling up Landfills.
    Old Intel based computers are terrible for power usage. Modern computers that are ARM based are much better for the environment.
    - hulitu 3 months ago
      > Modern computers that are ARM based are much better for the environment.
      And modern computers that are Zen based are even better. You can do real work on them, instead of sitting idle all day. /s
southernplaces7 3 months ago
cough, https://massgrave.dev/genuine-installation-media cough
khaledh 3 months ago
Microsoft knew they were losing the client device market to iPhone and Android (after their Windows Phone flopped). So they essentially gave up on improving Windows, and decided to turn it into a thin client for Microsoft cloud services. For this model to work well, they need to force users to have a stable identification, aka Microsoft account, in order to login to the thin client.
Windows is over. I moved to Apple silicon a while ago and never looked back. Even though macOS has its warts, it's not hostile to its users.
- hnlmorg 3 months ago
  I remember an interview with Bill Gates around 2000 (maybe even late 90s) where Gates said that the future of software was online subscription.
  He even stated back then that he’s have Office run over the internet if he could.
  Another example of this is how Xbox Live has been a thing since the original Xbox. Long before iOS and Android. And more recently, Xbox Live has become more than just a subscription service but a full on streaming platform.
  Let’s also not forget that traditionally enterprise licenses for Windows would be billed annually. By this, I don’t mean someone purchasing Windows Server for their home lab, but actual data centre use. (I’m pretty sure this was the case, been a long long time since I’ve gone through a Microsoft audit, let alone been purchasing data center licenses, some someone do correct me if I’m misremembering here).
  So I don’t think any of this is a knee jerk reaction to Apple and Google eating their market. I think it’s always been their long term strategy but it’s just taken this long for the wider industry to align.
  Now with the gaming market being increasingly subscription based, other software vendors switching pricing format (eg Adobe) and the internet being far more accessible than ever, MS are in the best place they’ve ever been to press home the final missing piece: Windows Home.
- daveoc64 3 months ago
  >Windows is over. I moved to Apple silicon a while ago and never looked back. Even though macOS has its warts, it's not hostile to its users.
  It's also very naggy about signing up to iCloud and using an Apple Account.
  It doesn't force you - but it's still annoying.
- sys_64738 3 months ago
  > Windows is over. I moved to Apple silicon a while ago and never looked back. Even though macOS has its warts, it's not hostile to its users.
  You can also move Mac OS X out of the way by running an ARM Linux VM on the Apple ARM computers.
- disqard 3 months ago
  I don't know why you were downvoted.
  This really appears to be the simplest explanation -- turn every desktop into a thin client, served by walled-garden apps, and with Azure integration/dependencies.
  Then charge subscription fees to turn all computer owners into renters. Oh, and show ads too, while you're at it.
  - khaledh 3 months ago
    Thanks. The subscription model is now almost the default for everything. Investors like the steady stream, which makes sense financially. But unfortunately it has resulted in much lower software quality, because software shops now don't have to make a high quality, solid version that they sell once; they can just ship MVPs with bugs or missing features and tell you that we'll work on fixing/adding those features, just keep your subscription and you'll get it.
    I miss the days when you bought a high quality version of something that you kept using for years.
- throwaway48476 3 months ago
  MacOS is less hostile but still very hostile.
userbinator 3 months ago
"Challenge accepted." Much like with the TPM "requirement" and the others, I don't expect this one to stay undefeated for long.
- Tepix 3 months ago
  Why fight a piece of software with other motives hen you can choose one that is aligned with yours instead?
  - userbinator 3 months ago
    No software is perfect, and people might not want to "fight" with Linux either.
    Besides, it's a good challenge; this site is called Hacker News, after all.
- chii 3 months ago
  the true victory is to move to linux. unfortunately, that's been harder than it needed to be, and it's mostly due to inertia of old software and network effect of windows.
  - BrenBarn 3 months ago
    I've made the switch, but there are still occasional things for which I need to boot into a Windows VM.
aboringusername 3 months ago
Does anyone have an idea if you were to enable wifi and register a MS account exactly what data is being sent to them? Do they send your MAC address? Obviously your IP address and I assume during account creation they would want your phone number/alt email? I can see Windows not being accessible as some places genuinely don't have internet, and if they do, it's heavily restricted. I've also heard if you enter something like "a@a.com" or a banned email during setup it can let you through?
Obviously this is a way of 'legitimizing' consent to data collection and it would be very interesting to see a breakdown of every byte of data MS gets sent (even file explorer communicates with a US IP address).
I genuinely think the EU needs to take a look at this, I would be very surprised it this wasn't abusing their monopoly-like position for mandatory data collection (although, they probably welcome it!).
danielktdoranie 3 months ago
I avoid Microsoft products at any cost, and have done so since I began using computers in the 1980s. I suggest others do the same. The company and its practices are unethical and morally bankrupt: and those products don’t even work well. The more people who stop using Windows the less they will have control of gaming.
bentt 3 months ago
Save us SteamOS
3 months ago
CatWChainsaw 3 months ago
They want everyone using Microsoft accounts so they can turn computer usage into a subscription service, plus with Recall you get perfect telemetry. Panopticon is here and you pay for the pleasure.
codedokode 3 months ago
What happens if your online Windows account gets banned? How do you log in?
- hulitu 3 months ago
  > What happens if your online Windows account gets banned? How do you log in?
  Tough, isn't it ? Your security is very important _for us_. Your privacy is very important _for us_. See PayPal, Stripe, Google and other "services" for examples.
  To directly answer: I have a Win 10 without MS account. Disk got corrupted, chkdsk cannot repair, cannot boot. Checking messages on screen was something like "online chkdsk failed". Unplugging the ethernet cable "fixed" the issue.
3 months ago
ChrisArchitect 3 months ago
[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43511073
nottorp 3 months ago
BTW is there still a way to disable the stupid pin login on windows 10 and/or 11?
One that works this week, what I found online did not help.
1vuio0pswjnm7 3 months ago
Why does Microsoft continue to publish a Windows 10 ISO.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10I...
Does MS try to force an automated upgrade on anyone who installs it.
sshine 3 months ago
Windows is the first thing that gets deleted on a new PC.
An acquaintance of mine works for Microsoft. Every time I meet him, he always tells me how much money hey makes. I'm sure it's double of what I earn when I have a good year. A big part of me wants to earn that money, too. But an unwavering part of me knows, I could never work for Microsoft.
At this point it is not just bitterness from their anti-Linux, anti-FOSS FUD days:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010201090600/http://www.dot-lie...
It is knowing that I don't align with their philosophies, at all.
I can feel it every time I try to use one of their broken, unloved UIs.
- JFingleton 3 months ago
  The thing is, Microsoft does make good software: Excel, Visual Studio, VSCode, Xbox.
  I don't believe the problem is the engineers, the leadership of Windows fails to understand what the OS is meant for: getting out of the way so you can access the apps.
  - sshine 3 months ago
    C# is god software, too.
    Yeah, Microsoft is a big place.
    I heard the Acquired podcast episode on Microsoft, and I can’t pretend that their business strategies failed; they didn’t, and arguably it is the most successful company in history. I have a lot of respect for the business side.
    And the things that rub me the wrong way are part of their success, e.g. embedding WWW into the OS early on.
    The main reason I can’t work for them is their Vogon aesthetics. They’re like a square pair of shoes: not meant for you.
  - hilbert42 3 months ago
    "OS is meant for: getting out of the way so you can access the apps."
    When I first got into computers an operating system was primarily known as a file-loader — a way or mechanism to load one's apps. Take CP/M as an example.
- userbinator 3 months ago
  A big part of me wants to earn that money, too. But an unwavering part of me knows, I could never work for Microsoft.
  Big Tech and big money is not just Microsoft --- there's Apple and Google too, but if you don't want to work for MS, then the latter two might be "same but different".
- physicles 3 months ago
  Always telling you how much money he makes? He sounds like a bundle of fun.
  - sshine 3 months ago
    It’s without exception.
    I’m sure it’s just because he likes money, and because we have very little in common.
sys_64738 3 months ago
I haven't had Windows on a computer I own since 2009. I only use it on the work computer as it's the garbage they install and lockdown. The best thing you can do for your life is go Microsoft-Free. Don't do drugs, don't do MICROS~1.
3eb7988a1663 3 months ago
How does this work for secure environments which are supposed to be air-gapped? Does Microsoft offer a special on-premise licensing server? I cannot image they just throw up their hands for such clients and suggest an alternative OS.
- nipperkinfeet 3 months ago
  Anything above Windows 11 pro can join domains.
miles 3 months ago
> "We're removing the bypassnro.cmd script from the build to enhance security and user experience of Windows 11."
.·°՞(˃ ᗜ ˂)՞°·.
- isoprophlex 3 months ago
  Oh daddy MS please enhance my user experience OH YES enhance me uhhnnnnn
  I couldn't face my own reflection in the mirror if my job was justifying obviously user hostile crap like this.
- avgd 3 months ago
  It's quite ironic they call it enhance security to tie their software to their cloud considering their cloud infrastructure is one of the most hacked of the big corpos. Data breaches happen all the damn time.
  https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/04/hackers-could-read-n...
  https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/01/in-major-gaffe-hack...
  Something that doesn't happen much, if at all, with Google or Amazon.
  Microsoft is one of the most incompetent and impotent corpo out there and considering how much critical infrastructure relies on their software it would do good for the world if the government intervened like they should have back in the antitrust lawsuit days. Break them up. Separate the cloud, windows and office businesses. Make them stand on their own merits.
- mhuffman 3 months ago
  >security and user experience
  This is corporate speak for advertisements and telemetry
- nokeya 3 months ago
  Gaslighting at its finest.
- yoyohello13 3 months ago
  “Security”
jimjimwii 3 months ago
I'm surprised that they're doing this now, with how strained international relations are. I'm sure their timing will help motivate serious non-us customers to look at linux for desktop use.
- jofla_net 3 months ago
  I really doubt that if it was, say, the early 90s (with millions of people yet unfamiliar to computing) and MS and Linux was in its current state of development, that the masses wouldn't have found it much more frictionless just to use linux. MS is literally running on hot air, hubris, and lock-in the likes of which I don't think many others cant match, devil incarnate not withstanding.
delfinom 3 months ago
I keep installing without Microsoft accounts just fine. People keep not realizing there is literally a option for this in the installer still, it's just not named "skip microsoft account". LOL
- throwaway48476 3 months ago
  The existence of work around does not excuse user hostile behavior.
shepherdjerred 3 months ago
There's always Windows 11 LTSC
https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
janwillemb 3 months ago
It is very hard to use Android without a Google account. Most people accept that. They must have learnt from that.
- bad_user 3 months ago
  Android is very usable without a Google account or even Play Services. It's not convenient, you may be missing some functionality, but it's usable and alternative app stores exist.
  Huawei famously shipped devices without Google Play and many were fine with it. And Samsung's devices, AFAIK the most popular Androids, can have the Google account removed. Play stops working, but you can still use Samsung's own app store.
  That may not last, of course, Android could become closed source, but in the meantime I dare say it's strictly more open than Windows. And I hope Microsoft gets slapped by EU's DMA.
- hilbert42 3 months ago
  "It is very hard to use Android without a Google account."
  It depends on what type of user one is. If one wants to be spoon fed and data-raped by Google then your statement is true.
  But there are other options that make an Android smartphone both functional and viable without both a Google account and Google apps.
  Except for test accounts on test machines sans anything of any use to Google installed, I've never had a Google account and I manage perfectly well, and I've used Android since version 4.
  On rooted devices I hack Google to pieces, all Google apps are removed so is just about any other software that communicates with Google. On devices that aren't rooted, I'll disable all Google apps including Google Play Services and the Play Store, make sure a firewall is installed and that all apps except those with explicit permission are blocked from internet access and rerouted via a VPN to a nonexistent network. And so on, and so on….
  Everything I want to use works, Google software is replaced with apps from F-Droid and other sources of non-Google origin. Still, I've no trouble viewing YouTube and I do so without ads, also I've no difficulty using the Play Store and downloading apps without a Google account.
  There's really nothing that Google can offer me in addition to the third party apps and services that I already use. This phone has 215 apps installed and a second phone has 307—these apps are sourced from both F-Droid and the Play Store. Most apps however are open source/from F-Droid, etc.
  For those who don't want to go to the extremes that I have there are many halfway measures one can take to minimize Google's impact.
  BTW, in the past I've uploaded stuff to YouTube which I've done with 'dummy' test accounts.
- aboringusername 3 months ago
  This isn't true at all. Getting a Pixel and GrapheneOS running requires no Google account (but does require the internet initially to enable OEM unlocking).
  Once GrapheneOS is installed, no further interaction with Google is required. You can happily and easily use a main profile without play services/Gapps (and Graphene allows you to block 'network' at the socket layer if you do need to use apps).
  You could then have a 'work' profile or use private space which is isolated from your main profile that uses play services/app store but it is absolutely not required.
  It _is_ a learning curve for sure, but I do not feel Google is going out of its way like Microsoft is here to make it burdensome. (In fact, Google is quite welcoming to OEM unlocking unlike some other phone manufacturers)
  - theandrewbailey 3 months ago
    I've been running LineageOS without MindTheGapps for about 2 months. (I was using LineageOS + MindTheGapps for several years on the same phone, but recently reflashed it.) My "app stores" are Fdroid and Aptoide. Not only what I have is usable, it feels faster and doesn't slow down after a week without rebooting.
    My brother is stunned that I'm still using such an old phone (8 year old Moto). Unfortunately, no recent model Moto phones can run Lineage. My next phone will probably be a Pixel with Graphene or Lineage.
- qrobit 3 months ago
  Is it? I use Android without Google account (with services though). No app forces account on me, there's always option to sign in through other platform or directly via email.
  - bakugo 3 months ago
    > No app forces account on me
    What apps? You can't use Google Play to download apps without an account.
    - jakeogh 3 months ago
      No google acct here, I use fdroid and the Aurora store. I have no doubt though that google is working on killing the Aurora store.
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41773781
mindslight 3 months ago
I assume that any version one might actually use will have this patched out by the torrent packager.
DeathArrow 3 months ago
All the computers are connected to the Internet? Can you still buy something without having to register and without that software always be communicating to home servers? Can you still buy a software product and do whatever you wish with it, for as long as you want and without having to pay subscriptions or be forced to upgrade?
- hulitu 3 months ago
  > All the computers are connected to the Internet?
  no
  > Can you still buy something without having to register and without that software always be communicating to home servers?
  yes
  Can you still buy a software product and do whatever you wish with it, for as long as you want and without having to pay subscriptions or be forced to upgrade?
  yes
sarcasmatwork 3 months ago
Could you create a slipstream ISO using nlite, create a user and then it's bypassed?
- tharos47 3 months ago
  The simplest way imho would be to use Windows configuration designer. It generates a file that automate windows oobe when put on a USB key connected to the pc during setup.
  https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/prov...
- defrost 3 months ago
  Easy way to create custom Win11 iso is using microwin from the Chris Titus win util suite
  https://christitustech.github.io/winutil/userguide/
  https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil
  https://christitus.com/windows-utility-improved/
  It's an open source textGUI powershell suite with hyperlinks to all the toggle tweaks, maintained by one talented MS engineer and contributed to and eyeballed by a hundred odd contibuters.
- chneu 3 months ago
  There are builds of win11 like Ghost Spectre that strip a lot of this crap out.
  - throwaway48476 3 months ago
    Why not IoT?
3 months ago
more_corn 3 months ago
Every day I am more glad not to be part of the windows ecosystem.
chneu 3 months ago
I recently bought a new computer for the first time in ~5 years. I had to boot into windows 11. What a garbage shit show that OS has become. It took nearly an hour for updates, then it constantly dogged me to sign up for free trials of all kinds of crap. It required logging into Microsoft. It made me back things up.
At no point was any of this really optional. And when it was they made it difficult to find the option to skip.
tpolm 3 months ago
Does oobe trick no longer work?
ohgr 3 months ago
I give it a week before someone patches it.
I’m using LTSC. That’s fine. I suspect that’ll never require a Microsoft account.
Edit: come on EU. Step up here. Tell them they need to give the users choice.
- bigstrat2003 3 months ago
  Do you still need an enterprise agreement to get a license for LTSC? That used to be the case for 10, anyways... kinda puts it out of the reach of most users.
  - ohgr 3 months ago
    No you just steal it and pretend it’s ok because the machine came with windows 11. Tech companies taught me it’s ok to steal and do things without permission.
    - sirwhinesalot 3 months ago
      If buying isn't owning then piracy can't be stealing.
    - throwaway48476 3 months ago
      Its not stealing if you don't seed.
  - miles 3 months ago
    It was/is just a few hundred dollars and well within reach of anyone able to pay that price (though the required volume license agreement, while "free", may well be off-putting to some): https://tinyapps.org/blog/201811300700_windows_10_ltsc.html
  - kotaKat 3 months ago
    You never need an enterprise agreement.
    irm https://get.activated.win | iex
  - shepherdjerred 3 months ago
    https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
nikhil 3 months ago
Fuck Microsoft