In the 1980s we also downloaded software from TV

71 points by spzb 3 months ago | 27 comments
  • tech234a 3 months ago
    As a more recent example of a similar concept, TiVo would distribute guide data to their DVRs using encoded video broadcast during overnight Paid Programming time slots. The practice ran from about 1999 to 2016. Around 2016, TiVo discontinued support for guide data updates for their first-generation Series1 DVRs. I couldn't find much information about these broadcasts online, though someone did post a clip of one from 2003 [1], there are a few copies of more recent introduction and conclusion animations [2], and there is some information about them on Wikipedia [3]. It could be a fun project to try to decode it.

    [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfUgT2YoPzI

    [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnu97CHDrYI

    [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infomercial#TiVo

    • trollbridge 3 months ago
      Some of us bought “lifetime” guide data subscriptions. It was rather irritating when “lifetime” actually meant “17 years”.
      • jandrese 3 months ago
        You still get guide data if you hook up an Ethernet jack and let it download data online. You need a USB Ethernet adapter, but even a cheap one is fine.

        I remember there was even a slot (I think it was PCI electrically?) on the gen 1 TiVos you could buy a real ethernet card for and then cut a slot in the case to run the cable out.

        That was a long time ago. I can't imagine there are that many Gen 1 TiVos still in use. I think they were SD only. Certainly don't support ATSC, so you would have to have a compatible converter box if you have it hooked up to an antenna.

        • trollbridge 3 months ago
          Yeah, I had one of the original Ethernet-converted TiVos, made by my roommate at the time who hand-soldered the debug port to ISA adapter from a blank PCB and a bag of parts. We rooted it, put an NE-2000 card in it, and then didn't need our home phone line anymore. (Also tossed an 80GB WD drive in it to replace the pathetic 20GB it came with.)

          Network-connected download of the guide data stopped working a number of years ago. I was still using mine connected to basic cable, which still had standard-def channels. (And yes, the ATSC to NTSC converter boxes could be persuaded to work.) Eventually, something like an HDHomeRun setup is a lot easier... but nothing will ever replace the "feel" of the TiVo remote. Particularly the 15-second skip button!

      • someonehere 3 months ago
        I worked with the guy that created that. It wasn’t at TiVO but a gaming company. He said it was also how they updated the TiVO firmware. It’s been years but I recall him telling the story about how they updated the TiVO using channels that were encoded a specific way.
      • spc476 3 months ago
        Here's a recent attempt to load code via video recordings of a TV show from the 80s. It wasn't an easy task. From the Youtube channel Retro Recipies:

        Decoding A Program Sent From The Past: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MezkfYTN6EQ

        Did We Decode A Program Sent From The Past?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRcs_TUpQ6g

        ACTUALLY Receiving A Program Sent From The Past!:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm0EACgCbM0&t=1203s

        • spzb 3 months ago
          That’s exactly the sort of thing I was hoping someone would have done. Thanks for sharing!
        • Dwedit 3 months ago
          There was also a backup system for PCs that used a TV interface card, and you connected your computer to a VCR to hold the data. Data was stored in white scanlines on top of a black background. Probably not the most efficient way to store data over NTSC (or PAL) video.
          • actionfromafar 3 months ago
            There's more fidelity in the luma (intensity) than in the chroma (color) of NTSC anyway, so it's probably not that bad. Also avoiding color means avoiding crosstalk and fringing.
            • rahimnathwani 3 months ago
              Danmere Backer.

              IIRC I paid £35 for it.

          • selcuka 3 months ago
            Also from the same web site:

            https://newslttrs.com/yes-in-the-1980s-we-downloaded-games-f...

            • b3lvedere 3 months ago
              Yes we did. Was quite fun to see a program working once you recorded it from the radio and played it back on your Spectrum. Took some conversion though.

              Some also used CB and other forms of radio for downloading lots of stuff.

            • jccalhoun 3 months ago
              I remember for a short time Computer Chronicle would have a segment where they flashed what looked like static on the screen to transmit programs. You had to have some device to capture it and send it to a computer.

              Edit: It looks like it was the followup to Computer Chronicles: Net Cafe https://cyborganthropology.com/TV_Modem

              • jmann99999 3 months ago
                For those in the UK at the time, how was the code consumed? It sounds like the BBC Micro was somehow hooked up to the same "cable" as a TV. Is that right?

                Did it decode the data automatically, or did programmers at home have to build something on top of it?

                It just sounds incredibly ingenious on both ends. First, to invent the process and second, to use the data. I'd appreciate any knowledge that can help with the latter.

                • shakna 3 months ago
                  The video of the Four Buffs might help you understand this better. [0]

                  There was an extra cable, containing a photo diode, that you just stuck to the screen itself.

                  [0] https://youtu.be/xxo1Gs46ti0?si=fqPIaxaHGFFFJmpF

                  • jmann99999 3 months ago
                    OMG, I just watched that. Amazing. I get it now, and it is supremely simple but jaw-droppingly so.

                    When would a show like this be on? I don't remember anything like in the States in 1985 (I was rural though).

                    This video is like today's YouTube.

                    • hakken306 3 months ago
                      Apparently it was on at 17:30 on Channel 4, listed as "4 Computer Buffs" [0]. Channel 4 was an independent TV station, and one of only four over-the-air channels.

                      From another site [1] the show was one of a short series of 7 programmes, probably hosted by a professor on a sabbatical. You can cross-reference the time slot on the first site. In the same time slot, at other dates, are other computer-related shows like Me and My Micro [2].

                      In the UK, it was an era of affordable home computers and hobbyist activity in the media. There was a large variety of microcomputer systems, with one or more hobby-level magazines dedicated to each manufacturer. Television programs would often partner with magazines to present a column, recap, or serve as a reference for more detailed work. You see some screen time dedicated to building hardware, as I/O was very primitive and you had to do the grunt work yourself. Made to order PCBs and surface mount was quite a way off.

                      [0] https://tvrdb.com/listings/1985-02-11 [1] https://epguides.com/4ComputerBuffs/ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSzIXg6jmZQ

                      • shakna 3 months ago
                        That particular show was broadcast on Channel 4 in the UK, at 6PM. So when most people were watching the news on a Channel 1.

                        Channel 4 was mostly just advertising, at the time. This show is selling you on computers. It's just that what they were selling was awesome.

                      • 3 months ago
                      • rahimnathwani 3 months ago
                        EDIT: Sorry! I answered without first reading the article. What I'm talking about below is different from TFA.

                        You could record the audio to an audio cassette tape. If you had a good enough cassette deck, you could use acoustic coupling (holding up the tape deck to the TV speaker).

                        The BBC Micro had a 7-pin DIN socket for audio in/out and remote control of an external tape deck.

                        https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&sca_e...

                        • jmann99999 3 months ago
                          Thanks for that! That makes sense and is very cool. In the US in the 80s we did something similar from the radio (the UK probably did too). So, I assume it was a similar principle.

                          Love it.

                        • rzzzt 3 months ago
                          Data broadcasting companies did use scanlines originally intended for Teletext/Ceefax in the 90s to transmit public information (e.g. weather forecasts, water levels): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datacasting

                          In that case the "antenna in" signal did go to an ISA decoder card in the PC, but it appears that the BBC Micro also had an adapter for receiving classic Ceefax pages, some of which also contained software: https://www.teletext.mb21.co.uk/gallery/ceefax/telesoftware/

                      • bcrl 3 months ago
                        Back in the early 1990s I recall working on a system that downloaded Usenet news feeds over satellite. I worked for a local sysop at the time, and due to high long distance costs in Canada it was tremendously more cost effective than transporting a similar amount of bandwidth over leased lines. The rural area I lived in was only fed with copper T1 lines until ~1999 when a local group finally convinced the incumbent to install fiber with the promise of over $1 million in business from the local municipalities, schools and hospitals. Residential and business ADSL was purely a side effect of that effort. We didn't get new DSLAMs with limited VDSL2 service until summer of 2014, and it still took them a couple of years to fix issues with the copper and qualify more than a handful of lines.
                        • urtie 3 months ago
                          This reminds me of the Basicode system, which transmitted crossplatform programs over the radio... and in the Netherlands, some of the programs could then be checked against the checksummed program listings on Teletext...
                          • NoSalt 3 months ago
                            I must say that I was more interested in his Mazinga action figure on the desk. I had a larger one, Shogun Warrior, when I was a kid, and I miss that toy.