E-COM: The $40M USPS project to send email on paper
120 points by rfarley04 1 month ago | 125 comments- jdietrich 1 month agoThis kind of service does have at least one very valuable niche application - armed forces personnel on active deployment. During the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, British troops received hundreds of thousands of letters every month through the e-bluey service. Letters could be sent via email (including attachments) and were printed as close as possible to the recipient. It greatly reduced logistics costs and improved speed of delivery, often facilitating next-day delivery to extremely remote Forward Operating Bases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Forces_Post_Office#The...
It isn't an entirely novel idea - during the Second World War, mail was often sent to very remote destinations on microfilm.
- Gud 1 month agoWhy didn’t the service personnel have access to their e-mail?
I was in Afghanistan for a different country. It was my job to keep the satellite communications working, including so people could send emails to their friends and family.
- jdietrich 1 month ago>Why didn’t the service personnel have access to their e-mail?
Because they weren't in one of the larger bases that had satellite internet. Combat troops in the wilds of Helmand might go weeks without seeing a fresh egg or a slice of bread. Satellite terminals circa 2002 were bulky, expensive bits of kit that just weren't that widely distributed, at least in the British armed forces.
- Gud 1 month agoFair enough.
I was there in 2010 and even our FOBs had access to BGANs.
- Gud 1 month ago
- jdietrich 1 month ago
- reaperducer 1 month agoBefore long distance phone service was widespread, but local service was becoming common, people often sent a telegram over the phone.
Person in City A would phone the local telegraph office and dictate a message. It would be sent over the telegraph wires to the nearest telegraph office to the recipient in City B, where it would be written down by the operator. Then someone would phone the recipient and read the telegram over the phone to them.
This was in use at least into the late 1940's that I know of.
- dheera 1 month agoIt would presumably be more secure to have the recipient receive them directly with a cell phone or satellite device. Printing them creates a literal paper trail and footsteps.
- deepsun 1 month agoBesides mandatory censorship, I've heard in WW2 they just delayed all mail by 2 weeks intentionally. By that time all secret information is not relevant anyway.
- lldb 1 month agoAnother interesting thing about WW2 mail - they would photograph letters onto microfilm, then reprint them on the other end to save valuable shipping capacity.
- lldb 1 month ago
- jdietrich 1 month agoIn the context of peer or near-peer conflicts, Ukraine has shown us many reasons why a cellphone or satphone can get you killed. Anything with a radio transmitter is a giant beacon announcing your location if your enemy has a half-competent ELINT operation. Allowing personal devices with internet access to be used in the field is a gargantuan COMINT risk, because it's basically inevitable that some idiot is going to post a geotagged photo of something sensitive on social media. Mail delivered through specific authorised channels can be monitored and censored much more easily than real-time communications.
- int_19h 1 month agoFWIW smartphones are nearly universally used in Ukraine by both sides because too much useful stuff runs on them. Artillery calculators, for example.
Russians also use theirs for actual comms a fair bit because their equipment (like older tanks from storage) often lacks encrypted digital radios, or sometimes any working radios at all. Ukrainians invested heavily into DMR after the Donbas war in 2014-15 where they had similar troubles.
- koolba 1 month agoWhy do you even need two way communication? Just have an encrypted signal with per device decryption keys. Kind of like how satellite tv works but for messages. You won’t have proof of delivery or a way to reply, but that’s a feature, not a bug.
- int_19h 1 month ago
- deepsun 1 month ago
- Gud 1 month ago
- floam 1 month agoThere is something like this being used in jails and prisons now. The purpose is to limit the ability of people to sneak in paper bathed in fentanyl or other potent enough substances.
Inmates do not receive originals - incoming mail is scanned at some service provider’s office that a PO Box forwards to, and things are reprinted at the detention center and walked to the inmate. Or people sign up for a faster service where photos / letters are uploaded through an app to skip the snail mail + scanning step.
One of these is called pigeon.ly
At most participating facilities the only exception to get an inmate physical paper from the outside world is legal mail.
- ProllyInfamous 1 month ago>At most participating facilities the only exception to get an inmate physical paper from the outside world is legal mail.
This is how some imprisoned authors have managed to publish their samizdat — by sending thoughts/outlines to their lawyer [under the pretense of legal mail] — when their written ramblings might otherwise have been destroyed [as contraband].
- robobro 1 month ago> The purpose is to limit the ability of people to sneak in paper bathed in fentanyl
Or is it to make even more profit on the backs of prisoners & their families for companies who win juicy contracts from the government? This was being done by private companies before fentanyl.
Look into Jpay - they do a lot of slimy things and make a lot of money doing so. The free market in action I guess.
https://theappeal.org/prison-tablets-ipads-jpay-securus-gtl/
- floam 1 month agoWith the switch to this paradigm at a certain detention center, the time to get an inmate mail simply addressed to them with an envelope effectively tripled, up from what was already like a week, and if you included any irregular shaped paper or cute stuff it’d get mangled in the process. Ask me how I know.
It’s certainly an exploitative service taking advantage of a captive audience. I do think the substances thing is making many more smaller jails consider it.
- floam 1 month ago
- ProllyInfamous 1 month ago
- citizenfishy 1 month agoI developed so many similar services for the UK Royal Mail in the 1990's
We used Yellow Royal Mail branded envelopes to gain attention.
- maguay 1 month agoWould love to hear more about your experience! Any chance you'd be up for an interview on the Buttondown blog?
- citizenfishy 1 month agoHappy to, find me on LinkedIN - Dave Barter CEO Nautoguide
- citizenfishy 1 month ago
- maguay 1 month ago
- jdeibele 1 month agoWhat I wanted (and still want) is a secure place to hold statements from banks for savings accounts, credit cards, etc. and brokerages.
I bank with two credit unions. Years ago, they implemented a fee of $2/month for paper statements. I get it, printing and mailing statements costs money. But it also comes to me without me having to log into an account and navigate my way to where the statement is.
I'd prefer to have them send the statement each month to an email address I specify. I get that they should take security seriously, so practically maybe that only means Gmail, Apple Mail, etc. are whitelisted.
I used to think there was a business idea here, that the banks should be willing to pay $.10/statement to save on the cost of paper. I'd be willing to use the service because the statements would automatically go to it and be retained for forever.
The reality is, I'm afraid, that the banks don't want you looking at statements because then you might find errors and dispute them and that costs the banks money.
- ivan888 1 month agoYeah I’ve had this same idea for the same reasons, and came to the same conclusions that without legislation, no incentive exists to send statements as attachments in emails or to store them with a 3rd party where they can’t be tampered with when a mistake is discovered
- franga2000 1 month ago> I get that they should take security seriously, so practically maybe that only means Gmail, Apple Mail, etc. are
What does that have to do with security? Geniune question. I really don't see what attach vector this prevents
- jdeibele 1 month agoIf I were a bank, I would want to send statements containing financial data only to secure places. So that means something like Google, where they have a serious security team protecting accounts and not something like Ed's ISP and Bait Shop.
The threat would be from people cracking Ed's and getting the statements there, possibly without the sysadmins at Ed's ever knowing that it had happened.
- jdeibele 1 month ago
- ivan888 1 month ago
- BiteCode_dev 1 month agoFrench postal service offers this, which is very convenient for legal letters because it stores a copy of it so people can't pretend they received something else.
- Sadzeih 1 month agoI use this constantly when I have an online document I need to send through the mail. I just use the online postal service to send it directly. It's probably a lot environmentally friendly since they can just print as close as possible to the destination. Instead of sending it across the country etc...
- Sadzeih 1 month ago
- tantalor 1 month agoWe use this for summer camp. The kids aren't allowed anywhere near computers or phones, let alone internet access. So we write them emails and attach photos that are printed out and delivered to their bunks.
The service is https://www.bunk1.com/
- vaindil 1 month agoI'll start by saying I am not a parent.
I attended summer camps as a kid and worked at one for years as an older teenager. I love summer camps. Looking back, part of the magic for me was being away from my parents for an extended time in a way that wasn't really possible in any other setting. The service you linked (a way for parents to constantly follow along with what's going on at camp) just feels... wrong? unnecessary? detrimental? to me. Do parents really need to be updated all the time with what's going on while their children are away for a week or two?
I don't think it's immoral or unethical to offer this service, I'm sure there's a market for it, but I just don't see why anyone would choose to use it. Let the kids go off to camp and have a good time, and they can tell you about it when they get home. It would really take the wind out of my sails if I got home and my parents already knew everything I had done, instead of getting to tell them all about it myself.
- hoseyor 1 month agoWhy not simply sit down and write an actual letter with a pen on paper, encouraging your child to also write?
- ceejayoz 1 month agoSome camps are a week long. You'd only really be able to write on Monday/Tuesday to be sure it got there by Friday.
- tantalor 1 month agoThe campers are definitely encouraged, and sometimes required, to write letters by hand. In fact their handwriting is much often better than adults, because they write by hand much more frequently.
- ceejayoz 1 month ago
- vaindil 1 month ago
- miki123211 1 month agoThe Polish Post actually introduced a system like this recently.
It serves as boring technical infrastructure for government agencies which still need to send physical mail. Instead of each agency employing their own people to handle printing their mail and stuffing it in envelopes, they can just send it electronically to the post office, which will handle it far more efficiently.
The eventual goal is to move most people to e-deliveries, which you're encouraged to set up when using government services online. For those who haven't done so, the letter will be printed as close to them as possible to save on delivery time and costs, regardless of where in the country the sending agency is located.
- insane_dreamer 1 month agoI have mixed feelings about the USPS.
On the one hand, it seems like a good public service -- and certainly essential when it was created and up until recently.
But 99% of what comes in my mail box goes straight in the trash. We do everything we can to stop email spam, why not stop postal spam?
If the government offered email as a public service, perhaps there wouldn't need to be any reason for postal mail in terms of ensuring a means of communication that reaches every one.
The Postal Service could still exist but would be quite expensive and only used for things that actually matter (i.e., original legal documents like car title, etc.)
- Ancapistani 1 month agoThis reminds me of the time FedEx spent $200m trying to integrate fax into their delivery network: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapmail
- anotheruser13 1 month agoThis reminds me of the old FedEx Zapmail service they had in the 80s. They didn't get much traction and the service was shut down after 2 years at great expense.
- exabrial 1 month agojfc all we want is the opposite. Think of the massive emissions reduction if we reduced all physical spam to emails.
1. diesel needed to cut the trees down
2. diesel needed haul logs to saw mills
3. natural/gas/coal needed to make the water to turn logs into paper
4. diesel needed to haul paper to printer to make spam
5. diesel needed to haul spam to post office
6. diesel needed to haul spam to to your door
7. diesel needed to put spam in the landfill
- oldpersonintx 1 month ago[dead]
- nashashmi 1 month ago[flagged]
- jacobr1 1 month agoNot the full thing - but I use Informed Delivery[1] from the USPS.
You get to see a picture of the envelope via email. With a little bit of Multimodal LLM usage I have their email summarized with important mail flagged for me.
- 1 month ago
- nashashmi 1 month agoYeah I use that too.
- 1 month ago
- abtinf 1 month agoThere are lots of services that do this, usually targeting people who travel a lot (especially boats and RVs).
I’ve had great experiences with https://www.virtualpostmail.com. They filter out all the junk, open and scan the rest, and email a pdf. It’s nice.
The only real downside is payment validation issues, when your parcel delivery address doesn’t match billing address.
- antics9 1 month agoHere in Sweden I get all mail, except occasional missed payment notices, electronically by way of https://kivra.se/en/private
Costs nothing extra.
- bArray 1 month agoI would also go the other way, you have something you want to be sent to somebody via paper, but it's only printed at the last mile in the delivery vehicle.
A birthday card for example doesn't need to be sent across the country or across the world, it only needs to become physical as close to your door as possible.
Maybe this could be a security measure too, you have a document that can only be printed by a secured machine and is only produced at the last mile based on current position. It would reduce the risk of the mail being intercepted or mis-delivered.
- malfist 1 month agoWho are you to decide how I get my mail?
- dust42 1 month agoYou do yourself. This service exists in Germany and likely in many other countries since a quarter of a century. Cost: 15€/month. The paper letters are collected and once per month forwarded to you.
[1] https://www.deutschepost.de/en/p/postscan.html (english version)
- bobmcnamara 1 month agoLiterally paying the government to read your mail :)
- soco 1 month agoIt was 10CHF/month in Switzerland, I activated it during longer vacations only.
- malfist 1 month agoOP did not phrase it as optional.
- bobmcnamara 1 month ago
- dust42 1 month ago
- titizali 1 month agoyou've just described earth class mail
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1 month agoThe US Postal Service isn't in the business of delivering mail and hasn't been in a long, long time. In the words of a former US Postmaster General, their customers are "the 400 or so direct advertisers who send bulk mail". They're a spam company. Arguably the first spam company ever.
But they do have a 250k strong union which is a very reliable voting bloc, which is the most important thing. New excuses will be invented to keep them around as circumstances require that.
>It would save money on the last mile delivery. And speed up delivery to a matter of hours.
Delivery of what?
- nxobject 1 month ago> Delivery of what?
A host of niche but useful services like election mail, delivery of official documents, and prescriptions. They'll never add up to the volume or economic profitability of junk mail, but they have inherent value – the argument against them is economic feasibility.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1 month ago>A host of niche but u
Sorry, it was lost in the 100 pounds of spam they deliver to my house every year. If they even do what you claim (if), they undermine that with their true priority... junk mail.
>They'll never add up to the volume or economic profitability of junk mail,
That profitability comes at the expense of our privacy, irritation, costs to dispose of (in a landfill) the trash, and our ability to be reasonably notified of those same official documents you mentioned above.
You don't even know why you want the US mail to continue, but you're scared that if it stopped bad things would happen. They have virtually no value whatsoever, and whatever infinitesimal value remains is sabotaged by their obnoxious spamming enterprise.
>When Evan and Will got called in to meet with the postmaster general, they were joined by the USPS’ general counsel and chief of digital strategy. But instead, Evan recounts that Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe “looked at us” and said “we have a misunderstanding. ‘You disrupt my service and we will never work with you.'” Further, “You mentioned making the service better for our customers; but the American citizens aren’t our customers—about 400 junk mailers are our customers. Your service hurts our ability to serve those customers.'”
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1 month ago
- CPLX 1 month agoDo you really not understand the value to a democratic government of having a direct means of sending a message or physical item to every single member of the society without having that be mediated by a private for profit company?
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1 month ago> Do you really not understand the value to a democratic government of having a direct means of sending a message
What does that have to do with the US Postal Service? I understand this problem perfectly, I've thought about it for many cumulative hours over the last 10 or 15 years. I follow the news stories.
https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/outbox-vs-usps-how-the-po...
>When Evan and Will got called in to meet with the postmaster general, they were joined by the USPS’ general counsel and chief of digital strategy. But instead, Evan recounts that Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe “looked at us” and said “we have a misunderstanding. ‘You disrupt my service and we will never work with you.'” Further, “You mentioned making the service better for our customers; but the American citizens aren’t our customers—about 400 junk mailers are our customers. Your service hurts our ability to serve those customers.'”
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1 month ago
- nxobject 1 month ago
- dlachausse 1 month agoThere are several services that do that for businesses. I don’t see why you couldn’t use one of those for your personal mail.
- 1 month ago
- bee_rider 1 month agoBut that would actually be useful.
- jacobr1 1 month ago
- dmix 1 month ago> The Postal Rate Commission took 15 months to review E-COM—long enough that standard postage went up 5¢ in the interim. It barred the USPS from operating its own electronic networks, just in case the Post Office decided to deliver messages electronically and in print. And it raised the price on the service to 26¢ for the first page, plus 5¢ for a second page.
> Sending the messages wouldn’t be simple, either. Customers had to register their company with the USPS using Form 5320, pay a $50 annual fee, send a minimum of 200 messages per post office, and “prepay postage for transmitted messages received, processed, and printed for each transmission,” dictated the 1981 Federal Register.
Almost sounds like a parody
- calvinmorrison 1 month agonow the junk mail subsidizes USPS. I wonder if they could be profitable without all the credit card preapprovals in the mail.
- j_w 1 month agoUSPS doesn't technically need to be profitable. It's a service guaranteed by the Government. Government services do not need to turn a profit.
Yes, currently the service is expected to fund itself. This is short sighted and has progressively made one of the greatest public services worse.
- kochb 1 month agoEither it is able to fully fund itself through sender fees and other operations, or the net losses are ultimately paid for by other government revenues, primarily taxes.
I enjoy Christmas cards and personal letters as much as anyone, but with electronic payments and telecommunications taking more of the volume, it is increasingly becoming an advertising service. If it is operating unprofitably, we are paying a form of subscription fee to receive those ads.
- jermaustin1 1 month agoAs a business that ships physical products through USPS because they have been WAY more reliable than UPS or FedEx, I wouldn't mind paying more for the service (well passing it on to customers), so long as it improved the service. But the non-government run parcel services can't compete (in my experience) with the USPS, even with the recent rate hikes that have been going on every few months.
Right now I have about a 1% lost/damaged package rate (averaged over 12 months - it's a tiny amount and it is insured), but come Christmas, that shoots up to around a 10% lost/damaged package rate through USPS - some of those packages do eventually resurface, and I let the customers keep them (I've already filed the insurance claim and shipped a replacement).
UPS was at 5% on average - never used them around Christmas - so no data for that - they might be better than USPS and the were close enough in cost just further away from my workshop.
FedEx (only used for 2 weeks) cost double and 30% of my packages were lost or damaged - can't average it out since there isn't enough data, but having to file claims for 1 in 3 packages after already paying 2x USPS rates wasn't going to fly.
- nxobject 1 month agoMore charitably, it's a cost-sharing scheme for last-mile delivery to rural communities and deep suburban sprawl – as, to be fair, is often true for other rural services with significant federal funding like healthcare and higher education.
- jermaustin1 1 month ago
- kbolino 1 month agoIt actually was profitable for most of its existence. It zealously guarded its monopoly on first-class mail because that's where the money came from. And it did so before it was spun out as a quasi-private entity.
This is actually one of the challenges of public services in the US today; many things, from mail delivery to bus and train service to road construction and vehicle registration, were once self-sufficient but haven't been for a long time. There's a lot of reasons for this, but one of the outcomes is that entities which used to take care of themselves now have to beg for a growing portion out of the general fund.
However, it's clear that the 1970s experiment to have it turn a profit again didn't work and likely never would have worked (it was, in many ways, set up for failure).
- jermaustin1 1 month agoFor the USPS, it would be profitable if it wasn't required to self-fund and pre-fund all retirement benefits for current and future employees 75 years in advance, paying for retirement health care for "workers" who aren't in the workforce, or even born yet.
It was a political ploy to force the USPS into debt in 2006 with the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. No other federal agency or private sector business pre-funds its retirement benefits.
- jermaustin1 1 month ago
- orwin 1 month agoCould USPS offer limited check accounts and debit cards?
I've been twice now in WV, in counties so far away from everything, the only government presence is USPS. The only proof you're in the modern US is USPS (and a bit further a weird, small public library near a weirder Dollar tree).
Some people have trouble getting their retirement money, other are destitute who found a new, non-homeless life (but have trouble with debt collection or just lost their papers), And from what I've understood, USPS has buildings and employees present everywhere and is really trusted in those deep parts, more than anything the government does.
Wouldn't offering basic banking (and maybe limited but free internet access) be a nice addition to help the poorest in the US?
Just an idle thought I had for a while
- amoshebb 1 month agoYes, I’ve also thought postal banking could help drive down the visa/mastercard tax on nearly all small businesses must pay now. The government has run an expensive payment network (the mint) since before 1776, no real reason they should stop now that it’s cheaper to do.
- bee_rider 1 month agoThis sounds like a “postal banking system,” some countries have done it. The US had it at one point.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Savings...
> The United States Postal Savings System was a postal savings system signed into law by President William Howard Taft and operated by the United States Post Office Department, predecessor of the United States Postal Service, from January 1, 1911, until July 1, 1967.
Bernie Sanders and Liz Warren have suggested bringing it back.
- Qworg 1 month agoPostal banking existed in the US in some form until 1967. We could (and should) bring it back just for the reasons you stated.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Savings...
There are places in the US where the bank drives to the town once or twice a week, since there's otherwise no way to get cash or transact.
- nxobject 1 month agoI'd argue that its passport services are a success – at this point, delivering random services at POs would have few downsides.
- moduspol 1 month agoI'm from WV. I always figured Wal-Mart would pick it up eventually, but I think there may be laws that make that difficult.
- insane_dreamer 1 month agoMany countries have something similar. In some countries it's where most people do their banking.
- amoshebb 1 month ago
- giancarlostoro 1 month agoSure, but then when something goes severely wrong, you wind up thinking of things to better fund USPS. I think USPS doesn't need to be aggressively profitable, but it should at least aim towards being as self-sufficient as reasonably possible. I don't see an issue with this.
- Goronmon 1 month agoSure, but then when something goes severely wrong, you wind up thinking of things to better fund USPS.
This logic could be applied to literally anything, so your argument is effectively that the government should never fund anything.
If there is a war, cancer/disease research is going to be less important, so the government shouldn't fund cancer/disease research.
If suddenly a famine strikes, war is going to be less important, so the government shouldn't fund the military.
If a sudden deadly disease arises, funding for food security/research is going to be less important, so the government shouldn't be funding any of that as well.
- fkyoureadthedoc 1 month agoThe downstream benefits of a well functioning USPS could be worth running it at a loss. If efforts to make it profitable make the service worse, then it could be a net negative.
- fzzzy 1 month agoYou obviously haven't lived in rural america.
- jgeada 1 month agoAnd the perverse incentive of this direction of thinking is that when you elect people with this thought pattern they prove the point by sabotaging the service. Then they say "see, government is ineffective ", and either directly pocket the resulting money (corruption) or give it to their rich friends (oligarchy).
- Goronmon 1 month ago
- potato3732842 1 month ago>Yes, currently the service is expected to fund itself. This is short sighted
I could not disagree more.
While I agree they don't "need" to be profitable and we "could" just give them tax money the fact that they try to be in the face of competition and come pretty close to doing so despite some dumb requirements really results in an incentive structure that puts them head and shoulders above pretty much any other subsection of government one interacts with. So perhaps let's not remove the incentive for profitability.
Edit: And before anyone tries to construe this as me advocating for privatization or anything else like that, I'm saying they're fine the way they are (on a macro level, I'm sure there's tons of individual items that could use refinement, like any organization) and ought to be a model for other government functions.
>and has progressively made one of the greatest public services worse.
What? Are you joking? Have you ever tried to do anything other than a bog standard transaction at the DMV or get anything beyond typical "homeowner pays professional to do typical thing" type work permitted? The USPS is one of the most user friendly services in existence even once you get off the beaten path of sending standardized envelopes and parcels. If you restrict the comparison to just federal services it's not even close except perhaps some very specific common workflows but even then when it goes off the rails it goes off the rails way harder and is way more painful to resolve. Ask anyone of social security age if you don't believe me.
- TheJoeMan 1 month agoThis creates a market discontinuity by the government that leads to abuse. Part of the reason for Amazon's dominance is that USPS undercharges for package delivery. When Amazon rolled out their own delivery service, they optimize delivering the "cheap" packages, and making USPS deliver the "expensive" out of the way packages, and due to flat-rates, USPS was in the red. USPS's solution? Keep squeezing grandma who wants to mail a few first-class letters a year.
- BenjiWiebe 1 month agoMaybe in some places, but in our rural area (Durham, Kansas) 95%+ of Amazon packages are delivered by UPS.
- BenjiWiebe 1 month ago
- kochb 1 month ago
- kotaKat 1 month agoTo be fair, all the credit card preapprovals in the mail help ensure every last American is reached by mail, even if it means by mule train.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2025/06/mule-ma...
https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=https://www.theatla...
- j_w 1 month ago
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1 month agoSo that people can discuss the US Postal service intelligently. About 15 years ago, there was a service (Outbox) designed to scan your mail, email anything important to you, and discard junk mail. They were growing, people enjoyed the service, and then they went to Washington DC to talk to the Postmaster General about expanding nationwide.
https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/outbox-vs-usps-how-the-po...
>When Evan and Will got called in to meet with the postmaster general, they were joined by the USPS’ general counsel and chief of digital strategy. But instead, Evan recounts that Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe “looked at us” and said “we have a misunderstanding. ‘You disrupt my service and we will never work with you.'” Further, “You mentioned making the service better for our customers; but the American citizens aren’t our customers—about 400 junk mailers are our customers. Your service hurts our ability to serve those customers.'”
That's the US mail. Can we all please stop pretending that any actual human needs the US mail to continue? No one's paying their bills through the mail... you can't even really write checks. Hell, given how international mail works, it's the US government subsidizing Aliexpress and Temu. No one should be defending the US Postal Service.
- ProllyInfamous 1 month ago>No one's paying their bills through the mail... you can't even really write checks.
This is exactly how I pay all my non-cash invoices — via USPS, sending checks. I don't even use email anymore (freedom!).
Ironically, I lost access to online banking a few years ago [which I'd really love to have, but US banking has ridiculous "security" infrastructure].
- chneu 1 month agoThe USPS does a lot more than ship junk mail. It's a fun joke but it's super ignorant. It speaks to idiots, everyone else rolls their eyes and thinks you're not very bright.
It's a public service. It doesn't need to turn a profit because every dollar put into it generates economic activity.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1 month ago>The USPS does a lot more than ship junk mail. It's a fun joke but
Junk mail is well over 99% of their activity by any metric you can offer. Pieces of mail, revenue, weight, etc. It's not a joke. It's the fucking truth of it. And you're all bizarrely delusional if you can't or won't see it.
>everyone else rolls their eyes and thinks you're not very bright.
I've experienced that all my life. And yet I always out-tested everyone who thought that. Why would that change? The comment above yours talks about how he's always paying by check... what the fuck is grandpa going to do in the next couple years when that goes away? They can only postpone the deprecation of paper bank checks for so long. Guess he will either have to stop living in the 1950s, or just croak.
>It's a public service.
It's a goddamned public nuisance.
>It doesn't need to turn a profit because every dollar put into it generates economic activity.
???
We could also pay them to dig holes and fill them back in. That'd be an economic win too, eh? Though your comment probably comes closest to hinting at the real justification: a unionized voting bloc that without it the Democrats would become doomed to irrelevance.
- tomhow 1 month ago> It's the fucking truth of it. And you're all bizarrely delusional if you can't or won't see it.
Please avoid personal swipes like this in HN comments, and the general style of commenting on display here. It's against the guidelines:
Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."
Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
- chneu 1 month agoI have no clue what your comment is even trying to say. You just sound offended instead of making any really valid points besides the rate of junk mail.
Notice I didn't say the USPS doesn't ship junk mail. Just that they do a lot more than just ship junk mail. This is objectively true.
The USPS provides massive benefits to numerous americans. Prescription drugs shipped via USPS, last mile service to people that other carriers wont deliver to, signature mail, passports, etc.
Money put into the USPS benefits the economy. This is like food stamps. A dollar in creates more than a dollar of economic activity. This is something that some people absolutely refuse to acknowledge. The USPS doesn't need to be profitable because it provides an invaluable public service.
hard lol and eye roll at "it's a goddamned public nuisance." what a telling thing to say, because it invalidates your entire stance. The bias is on full display. It's almost like you read my comment then wrote a satire piece to show how correct my comment was. It really sounds like you've bought the conservative mentality that everything the government touches is bad. Haha.
- tomhow 1 month ago
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1 month ago
- ProllyInfamous 1 month ago