They Paid $3,500 for Apple's Vision Pro. A Year Later, It Still Hurts

42 points by rpgbr 1 month ago | 71 comments
  • jeremiemyhren 1 month ago
    I bought the base model shortly after launch. It went from the coolest piece of tech I had ever handled to in a drawer untouched for at least a couple weeks. It probably would have mostly stayed there or been sold on eBay, until... right at a year ago I was in stopped traffic and hit by a distracted driver at highway speeds. Two broken hands, fractured sternum, head injury with vision issues, life changed in an instant. Fast forward a few weeks - hurt, bored, unable to use a computer comfortably I started using it to mirror my Mac with a lap desk & a Magic Keyboard/trackpad. It was a godsend, I was able to comfortably use my computer, communicate, watch TV, etc. Now, today, I'm mostly recovered, but I still use my VP daily, when not in meetings it's my preferred interface to my Mac, working without it feels like I'm missing a critical piece of the interface.
    • AlecSchueler 1 month ago
      Sorry to hear about your accident, and glad to hear you've mostly mended up. Now that you're hopefully back to being for the most part a fully abled user I'm curious which parts of the interface feel critical for you now? What does your usage pattern actually look like today?
      • Ancapistani 1 month ago
        It's weirdly effective as assistive tech.

        I don't think that was intentional, but it is. You're not the first person I've heard that has used it to accommodate a physical disability like that.

        In fact, I used mine that way as well. I was also in a car, and lost my glasses in the process. My prescription had expired, and my face was swollen so much that even a week later I wasn't able to get an accurate eye exam. It's been two months, and I still haven't gotten my glasses worked out completely; I'm using a pair now with only one lens because one was defective.

        I was able to comfortably wear the Vision Pro before I was able to get an accurate vision prescription, which I believe is because of the customized light seal. I used it for both work and play for a couple of weeks, until I was able to get new glasses that are adequate for screens.

      • snitty 1 month ago
        I demoed the Apple Vision Pro. It demos incredibly well. And there's very little to do with it.

        This isn't a problem unique to the Apple Vision Pro. There's still relatively little to do with an Oculus, PSVR2, and many other headsets.

        Honestly, my favorite part about my PSVR2 is the ability to cut off most everything other than what I'm doing just then.But it's kind of a lot of work for that feature.

        • jsbisviewtiful 1 month ago
          > And there's very little to do with it.

          My household grabbed an Oculus Quest 2 in late 2020. We used it for maybe 6 months tops and since then it has gathered dust. The games are either too expensive for a short experience or exhaustively immersive to the point they require too much activation and sustained energy. The library at the time was also very small so I would be curious to charge up the headset and see what has changed.

          I think our headset was around $500 USD... Fortunately the Quest 2 experience taught us that $3500 USD for the Vision Pro was _absolutely_ not going to be worth the cost.

          • archerx 1 month ago
            I was really into VR in the beginning. My friend got the occulus DK1 and my mind was blown. I got a DK2 which ironically felt less immersive since the field of view was smaller but still very impressive.

            I demoed it to a lot of my friends and everyone was very impressed but no one ever asked to go back. When I realized this knew there was a problem and that when I started doubting the adoption of VR.

            Once Meta/Facebook bought occulus, I full checked out and never bought another VR head set ever again.

            I still managed to make a VR version of one of my games before fully quitting. I don’t know what it would take for me to care about VR again.

            • wkat4242 1 month ago
              I'm the opposite. I backed the DK1 but it was unusable to me. Way too nauseating. The high persistence tablet display was horrible, the pixels were so massive.

              Then when Facebook took them over they finally had the chance to buy first class custom made components instead of going for scraps from the mobile industry. I don't like Facebook/meta either but their cash was desperately needed.

              I also really appreciated the gift of the Rift consumer version, they were under no obligation to do that.

              • spacemadness 1 month ago
                I thought sim racing with VR was one of the coolest gaming experience I’ve ever had. But once I got busy and tried to go back to it while not having a dedicated setup, it seemed like a real PITA and I just stopped doing it. The heat, weight, variable motion sickness, and cable madness didn’t seem worth it.
            • tim333 1 month ago
              I demoed it and thought it was cool but way to heavy on my face for me to want to use it. I get kind on annoyed by the weight of even regular glasses. Though funnily enough I don't mind wearing an open face crash helmet with a visor with the weight carried by the top of my head rather than my face. I thought that might be a better way to do it.
              • Mindwipe 1 month ago
                There's a heck of a lot more to do with the Quest at this point, as it actually has a software library. Developers don't actively trust Meta, but at least get some impression Meta want them to develop things.

                Apple considers developers so far below them nobody is willing to touch it with a pole.

                • Ancapistani 1 month ago
                  There are definitely a few with UX problems, and there are a few apps completely missing - like ProtonMail - but overall bringing iOS and iPadOS apps into visionOS feels pretty natural.

                  If visionOS is to succeed, that's how it will do it. visionOS and iOS/iPadOS will continue to be developed in parallel, with new UX conventions slowly making their way to the traditional devices. Over time, apps built using Apple's platform will "just work" in visionOS as well.

                  In fact, while I hadn't thought about it until now, that's probably exactly why they're doing a visual refresh of iOS 19. Reporting seems to emphasize the "visionOS style" widgets, and it's apparent to me at least that that's going to lead to deeper and more complete integration between the platforms.

                  I don't think Apple is done with Spatial Computing. I wish the Vision Pro had done a bit better, especially its native software ecosystem, but I don't think it has been a failure at all. There were likely lots of reasons they launched it: to test the market's readiness for the product, to introduce new UX conventions, to get direct user feedback, to allow developers onto the platform, etc. They didn't have to make money on the Vision Pro (though, I think they did).

                  People here are always saying how hard it is to build a hardware startup; how just _shipping the product_ is a milestone that most of them never reach. Hardware is hard. I see the Vision Pro as Apple applying Agile to hardware. They shipped an MVP. It's not a "VR headset", it's a "Spatial Computing device". That lets them see how people actually use it, refine, and iterate.

                  The only reason you don't see this approach more often is that most companies have neither the capital nor the risk tolerance to do it. Apple spent $30B on R&D in FY2023.

                  • dlachausse 1 month ago
                    The software library for the Quest is almost entirely games.

                    To Apple’s credit, nearly every iPad app works on it unless the developer specifically opts out.

                    I don’t think the issue is how Apple treats developers, it’s simply a matter of market share. Making apps for Vision Pro won’t be profitable until there are a lot more users.

                    • int_19h 1 month ago
                      Games (and other forms of entertainment) is where it actually brings something to the table. I don't think I'd ever want to play flight or space sims not in VR, for example. And it doesn't even need to be very involved; e.g. if you have VR headset that works with Steam, be sure to check out Polynomial: https://store.steampowered.com/app/379420/Polynomial_2__Univ...

                      There are some adjacent niche uses, as well. High-res fractal viewing, for example.

                      But as to productivity... I tried using various virtual desktop software, but the image quality is just not good enough to match what I'm used to with my 4K displays. Even 4K per eye is not good enough for that, since any usable virtual display won't fill the entire visible space.

                      • 1 month ago
                    • sometimes_all 1 month ago
                      > It demos incredibly well. And there's very little to do with it.

                      Reminds me of the VR storyline in HBO's Silicon Valley.

                    • LorenDB 1 month ago
                      Just to be clear, the Vision Pro does have its niche. As an example, SadlyItsBradley (VR leaker guy) keeps talking on Twitter about how he uses his daily.

                      Also, if the people who say it hurts would get a third-party strap, I bet they would feel better. I use a halo strap on my Quest 3 and it makes it way more comfortable.

                      • taspeotis 1 month ago
                        I don’t think Apple launching a new product, that is used daily by a guy on Twitter, is the endorsement you think it is.
                        • LorenDB 1 month ago
                          I'm not saying it's a massive endorsement. I'm just pointing out that the niche exists.
                          • secstate 1 month ago
                            No one is saying the niche doesn't exist. The embarrassing part is that ever since Jobs' triumphant return to Apple their magic was making what looked niche blow up into an everywhere device. Since Jobs passed, Apple has slowly been losing that magic, and this headset is a beautiful illustration of Apple's inability to find those everywhere devices.

                            Honestly, at this point, if Jobs were still there we'd probably have no VR headset, but a TV with appleTV built in that also magically provides Atmos surround without any extra hardware and magically "just works" to find any and all content you'd want to watch from any service. The resurrected Apple used to be good at finding what people didn't even know they wanted. Now it's a zombie walking around hoping people see the value in what they make.

                        • hiatus 1 month ago
                          It's a $3500 device. It should come with a quality strap.
                          • Ancapistani 1 month ago
                            It comes with two.

                            The single band is almost perfect if your light seal is fit well. The weight is distributed against your forehead and cheekbones, and you barely feel it. It feels more like wearing ski goggles than a VR headset.

                            The problem is that "if" is carrying a lot of weight there. If your light seal isn't quite right for you, it puts too much pressure against your face. If your sinuses are shaped wrong, or your nose is broken in just the wrong way, tightening the strap enough to press it against your face is uncomfortable.

                            The second strap is inferior in how comfortable and usable it can be, but is much more consistently usable by people regardless of anatomy and fitment. It takes longer to don and doff, and it isn't as "aesthetic", but the top strap pulls the weight up off your cheekbones and puts some of it on the crown of your head.

                            Overall, I'd suggest trying the single strap. It's super convenient and can work well. If it doesn't work for you, try the dual strap. If that's better, invest in a good third-party solution that strikes the right balance of comfort, security, and portability for you.

                            • disqard 1 month ago
                              Maybe they'll sell that as a $400 upgrade, like that $1000 monitor stand...
                            • hfgjbcgjbvg 1 month ago
                              lol what’s the niche? Porn?
                              • hfgjbcgjbvg 1 month ago
                                Like let’s be real here. The first thing I did was fire up a massive browser and went straight to pornhub.
                                • wkat4242 1 month ago
                                  I like sexlikereal (open it in the deovr app) better, their content is optimised for VR.

                                  It is indeed one of the niches that VR is great for. There are many others like gaming. But porn definitely is one too.

                                  • hfgjbcgjbvg 1 month ago
                                    What’s even more sickening is this ai company has pictures video and a voice recordings of all our loved ones.
                                  • Ancapistani 1 month ago
                                    Nope. It's not the best device for that.

                                    I'm not a big consumer of porn - not a value judgement, just context. Still, I've made it a point to go out to the big sites every couple of months just to see where the industry as a whole is with streaming VR content.

                                    The company behind most of the VR-specific sites also appears to be behind DeoVR. It's finally getting to the point that it may be practical for a company to stream VR content smoothly at a resolution that's acceptable for things like "virtual coworking".

                                    As for porn, if that's what you want the AVP isn't the right product for you. You want image quality and software support. Right now, that would probably be the Quest 3. There are others out there with better image quality (Pimax, Bigscreen, etc.) but streaming sites are built around Meta's platform first and foremost.

                                • abirch 1 month ago
                                  Personally I would use this for live sports. Imagine being court side for the NBA finals? Have cameras / AI that would let you do a 360 view.
                                  • robg 1 month ago
                                    The cameras they use for MLB look exceptional. I’m really surprised they haven’t done more in this direction. Sports get better ad revenues than scripted TV.
                                    • kalleboo 1 month ago
                                      Apple really needs to make some deep investments into content, instead of all the short sub-10 minute demos they're releasing currently
                                      • robertlagrant 1 month ago
                                        This is exactly the sort of thing they should do.
                                      • hiatus 1 month ago
                                        This is flagged while an apple product announcement is trending on the frontpage now. Sus.
                                        • LorenDB 1 month ago
                                          • ubermonkey 1 month ago
                                            Bah, clickbait.

                                            It's a $3500 VR headset, so a niche bit of kit from the jump. Nobody's made this work in a meaningful way, and the initial reviews of the Vision Pro made it clear this was no different (though there were kinds words about Apple's implementation of this level of tech).

                                            Another commenter notes that it's beautiful, does what it does well, but there's little to do with it. That's utterly true. Maybe in a few years, that'll be different, but I think the real problem is that Apple brought it to market before the rest of the market was ready to jump forward. It's too expensive for the level of mass adoption that would jumpstart a VR software ecosystem (ie, in the same way the iPhone catalyzed phone apps).

                                            • wkat4242 1 month ago
                                              I think the quest made it work much better. The price point is so much lower that there's lower expectations to meet, and it can actually do a lot more than the apple vision like roomscale gaming. For lack of motion controllers the vision pro can't do that so you're stuck consuming static content like movies and floating ipad screens.
                                              • hiatus 1 month ago
                                                I've wondered if the pricing is to avoid cannibalizing their other product lines. Why buy an iPad Pro if the Vision Pro is only a bit more?
                                                • Ancapistani 1 month ago
                                                  I have both, and don't see that changing. The Vision Pro just isn't as portable as the iPad Pro.

                                                  My current iPad is an 11" 3rd-gen iPad Pro. I bought it in January 2019. I got Apple's keyboard case for it - I don't recall the exact name of that one, but it's the one that has a trackpad and holds the device magnetically. I've carried that thing with me everywhere I've gone for the past 5 1/2 years. The keyboard case is beginning to delaminate on the edges now, but I expect it'll last me another year or two before I upgrade, and even then I'll pass this one down to a family member.

                                                  My Vision Pro, on the other hand... I carry it in a dedicated case that's about the size of a shoebox. To use it, I have to remove it from the case, remove the battery from its compartment, plug it in, put it on, wait for it to boot up, log in via eye scan, and only then get the home screen. But wait! I still don't have internet access unless I'm somewhere I've connected to WiFi before. Now I have to connect to my iPhone or iPad to get online.

                                                  The point I'm trying to make is simple: they are very different devices, and serve very different niches. I see almost no overlap.

                                                  I'd be far more apt to get rid of my iPhone than my iPad. The only reasons I have a phone at all these days are because I use it to fly a couple of drones and that Apple seems to assume that you have an iPhone for much of their ecosystem. I can't set up my kid's Apple Watch from an iPad or Vision Pro.

                                              • wkat4242 1 month ago
                                                Apple seems to have focused way too much on the hardware and totally ignored the whole "what do we do with it". Having a bunch of floating ipad screens is not enough justification.

                                                The movie watching is nice and I often watch movies on my meta quest. It's comfortable to watch for hours. But the quest was 400$ not 3500$. It needs much less justification.

                                                Also I game a lot in VR. It's so fantastic. Even old games gain a totally new dimension such as half life 2, gta san Andreas. This is not even possible with the vision pro despite being more than 7 times as expensive.

                                                • int_19h 1 month ago
                                                  For movies specifically, you don't even need VR with proper head tracking. A head-mounted display is sufficient; basically just a pair of screens in front of your eyes, without fancy (and heavy!) lenses etc. It's much lighter, and you get better image quality, too. And it "just works" with any device that can output video over HDMI or USB-C, with power delivered over the same cable in the latter case.
                                                  • wkat4242 1 month ago
                                                    Well yes and no. It's much better with head tracking. Feels more like you're really in a cinema. A screen glued to your face is weird.
                                                    • int_19h 1 month ago
                                                      I think this is subjective. Personally I rather prefer "screen glued to my face" because I don't want to be in the cinema - I want the UX to emphasize being "in the picture", while head tracking emphasizes the fact that it is 2D.
                                                  • spacemadness 1 month ago
                                                    Steve Jobs never cared for gaming and it seems like Apple wants to carry on with bias and leave money on the table.
                                                    • wkat4242 1 month ago
                                                      Well they had a little revival every few years. Like during the 320M macs, they paid a few developers to make Mac versions of eg call of duty. Also during the powerpc era they had such a phase. Always short-lived though.

                                                      They do have a sizable part of the mobile gaming market though it's not what serious gamers are looking for. But we're not a massive group either compared to the consumer that just wants to shoot a chicken at pigs once in a while.

                                                  • dlachausse 1 month ago
                                                    I would absolutely buy one if it was about half the price. I can think of lots of uses for it.

                                                    My kids love our Quest 3. It’s a great system for gaming. They’ve clocked hundreds of hours playing Beat Saber and Gorilla Tag.

                                                    If Apple can lower the price significantly and make it more comfortable I think there is potential for this to be a successful product.

                                                  • rrr_oh_man 1 month ago
                                                    What I always think about with VR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5KRTr-QRLk
                                                    • pier25 1 month ago
                                                      I wonder if there's enough interest to push the tech so that these devices are cheap and light enough to be interesting outside of a niche.
                                                      • Ancapistani 1 month ago
                                                        Specs, light weight, cheap. Pick two.

                                                        You can get a cheap, light, and usable headset these days for <$100. It's called the Quest 2.

                                                        You can get a high end, light headset. It's the Bigscreen Beyond 2, and it's ~$1,300.

                                                        As for high end and cheap, there's the Pimax Crystal Light. It's $600 (~$890 with required subscription), very high resolution (2880x2880 per eye, 35 PPD). I can't find the weight on their site but I own a Pimax Crystal. It's bulky and heavy - which I know quite well, as I stream multiple hours in VR very frequently.

                                                        • pier25 1 month ago
                                                          Right but my question is rather if there's a big enough market to eg make something like the Bigscreen Beyond 2 much more affordable or the Pimax Crystal Light much lighter.

                                                          I'm not into VR stuff and it still seems like an extremely niche thing. I have friends who are into VR but they have spent way too much money into it considering a driving chair, steering wheel, pedals, high spec PC, etc.

                                                      • 1 month ago
                                                        • andrewstuart 1 month ago
                                                          I saw a YouTube review of new generation absolutely tiny be goggles. Looked much more viable.
                                                          • Molitor5901 1 month ago
                                                            I don't think we will get wider adoption of augmented wearables until we get something more like Deamon glasses - as light and wearable as a pair of glasses, but also discreet.
                                                            • lesuorac 1 month ago
                                                              I dunno, I think Google Glass if released today would do significantly better.

                                                              I'm sure android phones could be paired to it now and you'd swipe using the phone against a keyboard displayed on the headset. It just seems like it should be much nicer to read things without crocking your neck.

                                                              • FirmwareBurner 1 month ago
                                                                >I dunno, I think Google Glass if released today would do significantly better.

                                                                Why? Its users would still be called "glassholes" just like before. Nobody likes looking stupid in public, and wearing AR ski/diving goggles in public makes you look like a complete tool.

                                                                Then there's the issue with privacy. People wouldn't want to be constantly filmed/scanned in public by other people's AR goggles. It would be like wherever you go people having their smartphones pointed at you.

                                                                Apple VP is a niche solution looking for a niche problem. It's no iPhone moment.

                                                                • wkat4242 1 month ago
                                                                  It wouldn't. I have a Google glass enterprise 2. It's still a product waiting for a niche even today. The display is too small and too high up in your vision that it's annoying to use, the input method (trackpad on the stem) is terrible. For once I don't blame Google for stopping it.
                                                                • mrklol 1 month ago
                                                                  Yep, that’s the way to go till we have something like contact lenses :D
                                                                  • Molitor5901 1 month ago
                                                                    I can't imagine the dystopian nightmare it will all bring, however. Knowing each human that I interact with is a possibility that I am being recorded in real time, analyzed, etc. It would change human behavior forever.
                                                              • ksec 1 month ago
                                                                Again as with Post Steve Jobs Apple. They have all the wrong timing on technology.

                                                                >Apple is a company that doesn’t have the most resources of everybody in the world, and the way we’ve succeeded is by choosing what horses to ride really carefully – technically. We try to look for these technical vectors that have a future, and that are headed up, and, you know, different pieces of technology kind of go in cycles. They have their springs and summers, and autumns, and then they, you know, go to the graveyard of technology. And, so we try to pick the things that are in their springs.

                                                                And, if you choose wisely, you can save yourself an enormous amount of work vs. trying to do everything. And you can really put energy into making those new emerging technologies be great on your platform, rather then just okay because you’re spreading yourself too thin.

                                                                I dont think Vision Pro is wrong, but it is definitely 5 years too early. Just like Apple's self driving cars. Clearly when you have more resource than what you know what to do with it. This is what happens.

                                                                • ourguile 1 month ago
                                                                  I'm honestly surprised by this. I still use my AVP about once a week or more, it's my preferred method for watching shows, movies and YouTube. I would be interested to hear what others are using for 3rd party straps and I also wish there were more apps and more environments. But I'm very happy with what there is so far.
                                                                  • Ancapistani 1 month ago
                                                                    I ordered mine on launch day, and received it about a week later. Somehow, I even managed to convince my employer to buy it for me.

                                                                    It's fair to say that the "new" has worn off the Vision Pro for me many months ago. That's a relative statement, though; when I first got it I used it every day. Now I use it 2-3x weekly at home for the entire day. It's nice to be able to wait in the vehicle while one of my kids is at an activity and have a virtual monitor that fills my field of vision.

                                                                    My argument was that it would increase my productivity while away from my actual desk; while I don't travel much for work, my family is fairly non-traditional. Neither of us have in-person jobs. We homeschool our kids. We're constantly traveling, either for my wife's side hustles or our kids interests.

                                                                    One of the best things about it is using it while traveling. A couple of weeks ago we bought a used livestock trailer that was six hours away. The whole family loaded up in the truck, my wife drove, and I spent the next six hours in VR. I got more done than a typical day, it allowed more flexibility in our lives, and - believe it or not - I was actually a part of the conversations in the car the entire time.

                                                                    To my knowledge there is no other device on the market that can let me seamlessly work on a huge virtual monitor while traveling at 75 MPH down the interstate, while simultaneously allowing me to hold a conversation with my wife about the things around us. Everything else aside, it's pretty incredible to be able to go from reading logs to looking at the pretty entry gates for a ranch we're driving by, by moving my eyes a few degrees to the right.

                                                                    Even if the only use case for it were as a monitor for my Macs, it has more than paid for itself. My 512GB VP was $4,700 with upgrades, prescription inserts, AppleCare+, etc. Add a decent carrying case (not the Apple one), Apple keyboard and trackpad - call it $5,000 total. How is that any different from someone buying an Apple Pro Display XDR?

                                                                    Obviously, the monitor has much higher resolution, and features targeted at "creative" professionals. I get it, I've been a professional(-ish) photographer for decades. It's also only 32", and I'm a software engineer. I need screen space. I don't need color fidelity, or dynamic range. As long as the resolution is high enough for me to be able to read small text well, I don't care about that either. The Vision Pro's resolution is better than my eyes' ability to see small text.

                                                                    No, I have no regrets around the Vision Pro. I still think Apple's "Spatial Computing" will eventually take off, but I'm satisfied with the purchase even if it ends up being abandoned and never receives another update.

                                                                    • segfaultex 1 month ago
                                                                      I bought one at launch, a lot of the critiques here ring true.

                                                                      Nags:

                                                                      * It's absolutely too heavy. I'm really not sure how this got out of the door given how sensitive Apple is to the dimensions and tactility of their products. I'm guessing they were insistent on material choice and EyeSight over all else. I think that was the wrong bet.

                                                                      * The Vision App ecosystem is a dumpster fire. I recall developers complaining about Apple's developer relations, I can't imagine this will change course any time soon.

                                                                      * The displays are outrageously high quality, but the foveated rendering becomes really obvious when you use features like the Mac Virtual Display. I can't use it as an external display for more than an hour or so.

                                                                      * Speaking of which; it's annoying to put on/take off. I find myself hesitating to use it for that reason. And this is mostly down to the weight.

                                                                      Pros:

                                                                      * The displays/speakers/airpods integration make this the single best individual media consumption device on the planet. Yeah, a bigscreen beyond or similar are great options too, but I can slap the VP on in bed (nullifying the weight problem) and toss on something from either a streaming service or my SMB share.

                                                                      * And because it's portable, it's the perfect device for airplanes.

                                                                      TL:DR; VP is too heavy, but there are some great things about it, and the faults don't really matter to Apple because they knew this would be a low-volume product.

                                                                      They REALLY do need to shore up developer relations before launching the next face computer, but that's unlikely as they are the most prideful company I can think of.

                                                                      • int_19h 1 month ago
                                                                        If you just want to watch videos, you can get something from e.g. https://goovis.net for less money that will be lighter, more compact, and will play videos directly from your phone over USB-C.