IRS Direct File on GitHub
744 points by nickthegreek 1 month ago | 318 comments- tomhow 4 weeks agoSee also:
Saying Goodbye - https://chrisgiven.com/2025/06/saying-goodbye/
- hydrogen7800 1 month agoI figure that the source code is not the hard part of the IRS making this available to the public, but the interoperability with the revenue system, and its verified adherence to the current tax code. Couldn't those things still be killed by the administration even if the source code is available publicly?
- BryantD 1 month agoYeah, absolutely. FWIW, the repo notes:
"Direct File interprets the United States' Internal Revenue Code (26 USC) as plain language questions, the answers to which should be known to taxpayers without need of external instructions or publications. Taxpayers' answers are then translated into standard tax forms and transmitted to the IRS's Modernized e-File (MeF) API, which is available for authorized public use."
So in theory it's useful now, but as you say it could easily change.
- kevin_thibedeau 1 month agoThe tax code is riddled with euphemisms like EITC that don't mean what it says on the tin. There's no way normies can manage that without instructions.
- kccqzy 1 month agoI thought OP's point is that normies who have no idea what EITC is can simply answer a series of simpler questions that don't mention EITC, and the software figures out whether they can claim the EITC.
- jandrese 1 month agoThere are also ambiguous edge cases that can't be answered until someone is audited and the IRS and the Tax attorney hash it out in court.
For example I installed Solar panels many years ago and read the exact wording on the Solar Tax Credit to try to figure out if you could include roof repairs under the panels in the credit. The wording was something like "all costs associated with a solar install". Every installer I talked to said yes, but it seemed dubious so I tried calling the IRS help line to get the answer and the help line was no help at all. A few years later and some court battles lost and that answer is now firmly a "no", making me glad I ignored the installer's advice.
How is tax prep software supposed to handle a situation like that? Some of the for pay options include "audit protection", but I don't know how far that goes. I guess you can attempt to pass all liability on to the customer, but even that seems a bit risky.
And definitely the IRS has its own jargon that doesn't always make sense to the layperson. Why, for example, is a form that you fill out once per tax year called a "schedule"? It doesn't organize anything by date or time!
- onlyrealcuzzo 4 weeks ago~30-50% of the population has a pretty simple tax return that they could probably do by filling out the form directly by hand...
- gleenn 1 month agoYes but there are plenty of companies or people that may want to know how the code works and would be motivated enough to read through the code to understand it and having it there in the public makes that possible.
- raverbashing 4 weeks agoWhile this seems to apply to a good amount of people, it seems the IRS has an informative enough page https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-in...
However, it is most likely that the people claiming EITC are the least likely to understand the information there
- 1 month ago
- kccqzy 1 month ago
- rights_reminder 1 month ago[dead]
- kevin_thibedeau 1 month ago
- fitsumbelay 1 month agoPiggybacking, I think the "hard part" also includes the decades of success that the tax prep lobby's had in protecting its business interests at the cost of US citizen's welfare. Although the number of states that provide free direct filing has grown from last year -- which I only remember to be substantially less than the 25 who do so today -- it's unclear what the problem is with the remaining 25 including DC where I live
- xhevahir 1 month agoRight, politicians and officials working on behalf of the tax-filing lobby could introduce lots of changes to the tax code with a view to making this software useless.
- glookler 1 month agoThe point of open sourcing from a dying ship is that the groups that can modify this software and resell it all start from it as a baseline. Is TurboTax all lean mean code available at a low enough price while still meeting profit expectations if it needs drastic changes?
- mrguyorama 4 weeks agoWhat is this repo's marketing budget by any chance?
Intuit's was big enough to pervert American tax policy for decades.
- bee_rider 1 month agoI mean… in some sense, it might be nice is the company doing your tax preparation is not too lean and mean, their whole point is to eat the hit if they screw it up, right? The math is not actually hard.
But, realistically, I guess if a self-service tax prep company messed up your taxes, they’d make sure you end up in arbitration.
- mrguyorama 4 weeks ago
- glookler 1 month ago
- sowbug 4 weeks agoImagine this source code becoming the unit tests for the legal code. Future tax-code changes would be accompanied by corresponding changes in GitHub. Inconsistencies would surface as new code and tests break the old ones. As courts introduce new nuances to the law's interpretation, new unit tests would follow.
This wouldn't replace human judgment; nobody in power would allow that. But even the capriciousness of politics can be expressed as Boolean logic (var isDeductible = taxpayerIsMe && !taxpayerIsYou). The tests could at least memorialize all the pork.
- naikrovek 4 weeks agogood luck with that; interpretation make things like this very difficult, if not impossible.
I agree that this would be nice, however. as a non-lawyer and someone who considers themself to be not a "real" developer (even though I write software every day) I have often wondered how alike law and code are, really, when it comes to defining intent via a keyboard.
- sowbug 4 weeks agoThe interpretation aspect isn't solvable in code, but it's representable. That's what I was getting at with the Boolean comment. A branch point might be "bool answerUnanswerableQuestion()" and the unit tests would mock it as true and then false. Even if the question isn't deterministically answerable in real life, at least the code can show what happens when it is answered.
- robertlagrant 4 weeks agoI would prefer it if any change to the IRS rules must be accompanied by a reference implementation and lots of tests.
- sowbug 4 weeks ago
- naikrovek 4 weeks ago
- NoahZuniga 4 weeks ago> Taxpayers' answers are then translated into standard tax forms and transmitted to the IRS's Modernized e-File (MeF) API, which is available for authorized public use
The interoperability with the revenue system is provided by a different project, and this API is also used by turbotax and the like. It won't be going away.
The interoperability is not the hard part.
- bbarnett 4 weeks agoIt could easily go away, if there are claims of people abusing the API, or using "unlicensed software to use the API" causing errors. By licensed, I mean "approved to use the API".
There could also be pushes to monetize the API, "Why is this service free!?". Meaning they'd likely require a need to be incorporated, setup a commercial account with them, and have payment method on file, and on and on.
My point is, I can think of dozens of sneaky ways to make that pesky API go away, and I'm not even trying.
- NoahZuniga 4 weeks agoWhat I'm getting at is that the interoperability is not the hard part of this project.
- NoahZuniga 4 weeks ago
- bbarnett 4 weeks ago
- freeone3000 1 month agoI do not know of this capability currently, but if it has enough for eFile, it can also be used to generate a paper return.
- yencabulator 4 weeks agoFor years prior to last good commit. The rules change every year.
- yencabulator 4 weeks ago
- mystified5016 1 month agoI wouldn't say interop is a huge deal, the main time and cost sink is translating the recursive Gordian knots of tax law into a logically cohesive structure that can be evaluated programmatically. And then you (ideally) must prove its correctness.
Imagine pair programming with a tax lawyer. I'd rather eat my own hands.
- rsti0000 1 month agoDirectFile wasn’t meant to handle complicated edge cases. Most filers have a w2 and a few 1099s, use the standard deduction, and claim a few common credits (e.g., child and earned-income). They could file for free in a few minutes with directfile.
- rsti0000 1 month ago
- HPsquared 1 month agoSounds like a business opportunity.
- BryantD 1 month ago
- 90s_dev 1 month agoIs this common in Java?
https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/blob/9dd76a786ea69...
- mattgreenrocks 1 month agoThat's reactive programming in Java, where you return a callback to be run when an operation completes.
The giveaway is the Mono<T> return type.
- deepsun 1 month agoMy eyeballs bleed, and I'm pretty comfortable with Java for many years.
I see the most of it stems from reactive-style programming (reactor.core.publisher.Mono).
Maybe they just tried to fit into one screen? Anyway I'd ask to simplify it, if I was a their team lead.
- Hilift 4 weeks ago100% test coverage (fingers behind back).
- Hilift 4 weeks ago
- pjc50 1 month agoIs this what people have to do when they don't have the C# async/await autogenerated state machine?
- winrid 4 weeks agoYup. Although to be honest it probably doesn't need to be reactive.
- winrid 4 weeks ago
- mystified5016 1 month agoYes and no. This is a common pattern, but implemented very lazily. Most of this can (and probably should) be refactored out to separate classes/functions.
But no, I don't think this would faze most Java devs. It's ugly and bad practice, but more or less acceptable depending on personal taste. It works, at least.
Point of interest: LLMs tend to go too far in the opposite direction with code like this. They will break everything apart into functions or classes, even trivial one-line lambdas. I find that even more obnoxious than the monstrosity you linked.
- jryan49 1 month agoI can tell you as a person working in a spring boot webflux shop that is pretty bad code. You really don’t want to nest that much. Using atomic references outside the reactive flow is a huge red flag that they don’t know how to program in webflux properly. Not that webflux is easy to use at all and the dx is garbage.
- maeln 4 weeks ago> Not that webflux is easy to use at all and the dx is garbage
My experience with pretty much any Java framework ... It's sad because I do think (especially since Java 8) that Java is a great language for many things. But the community as this insane tendency to create incredibly convoluted pattern-on-top-of-pattern tooling.
- jryan49 4 weeks agoYes. I think micronaut is kind of the sweet spot right now.
- jryan49 4 weeks ago
- okeuro49 1 month agoWith virtual threads it's difficult to see WebFlux being used in new projects.
- jryan49 4 weeks agoI agree. Unless you actually need back-pressure, which almost every use case I've seen does not, it's just obfuscating simple API calls.
- jryan49 4 weeks ago
- maeln 4 weeks ago
- mcv 1 month agoI've seen similar things, in Java as well as some other languages. It's obviously not the preferred way of doing it.
- readthenotes1 1 month agoUnreadable+undebuggable has been the preferred way of doing it for as long as I have seen software
- seattle_spring 1 month agoSeems perfectly readable to me, and I haven't used Java professionally in over a decade. What specifically do you find problematic?
- seattle_spring 1 month ago
- readthenotes1 1 month ago
- contextfree 4 weeks agoI don't really know Java, but .flatMap(...) seems to be equivalent to C# .SelectMany(...) which famously can be interpreted as a monadic bind operator.
The C# query syntax
is equivalent tofrom x in xs from y in GetYs(x) from z in GetZs(y) ...
which is similar to monadic do-notation in Haskell.xs.SelectMany(x => GetYs(x).SelectMany(y => GetZs(y).SelectMany(z => ...)))
So since there is monadic Scala code elsewhere in the project, I wonder if this is a result of someone thinking in Scala and translating it into Java in their head.
- koolba 1 month agoIt is if you’re doing government style work and you want have a job for life creating code that nobody else can read.
Or if you’re in the business of selling extremely wide aspect ratio monitors.
- tempest_ 1 month agoIt is nested sure but the entire thing fits on 1080p monitor
- timewizard 1 month agoWell... depending on your default level of zoom.
After staring at code for 12 hours a day for a few decades my zoom is 125% by default.
- CivBase 4 weeks agoSo long as you abandon the concept of windows and run your text editor in full screen mode. Good luck with side-by-side diffs.
- timewizard 1 month ago
- 1 month ago
- 77pt77 1 month agoBetter make those monitors curved
- tempest_ 1 month ago
- evantbyrne 1 month agoThe atomics are goofy, but reactor can often lead to messy code structure when you actually need sequential blocking behavior.
- PeeMcGee 4 weeks agoIt's very common to see from devs that don't really grasp reactive programming. You often see similar things in Angular projects because of RxJS.
- tomashubelbauer 1 month ago> .onErrorResume
I dislike Java but if it can get me back to the On Error Resume Next days I might reconsider.
- xyst 1 month agoIf you are a non-Java developer, it does look daunting. But in my opinion it’s much much better use of the Java streams api and reactor library that I have seen compared to most shitty corp firms.
- hk1337 1 month agoI saw an internal “sso” auth app that iterated a byte array and concatenated the values into a string instead of base64 encoding it when I worked at HP/HPE/DXC
- tomsmeding 1 month agoLooks like callback hell, but in Java. Async/await would solve it, but it's Java.
- 1 month ago
- speed_spread 4 weeks agoFuck no, it's not. But I've seen it because it gets promoted by some smartass tech lead chasing so called webscale performance. But they never do comparative benchmarks against regular blocking code for fear that it would demonstrate the true nature of their head trip. Then they leave to go shit elsewhere and leave other people to deal with the consequences of their hubris.
- stefan_ 4 weeks agoReally puts that whole "our wonderful journey" "our incredible team" post into context, haha.
Just another shitty Java middleware that never amounted to anything, 200000 lines of code that don't express even a handful of ideas.
- qingcharles 1 month agoWow, that's frustrating code. I feel vindicated in using an ultrawide to code with. When I mentioned on here I use it because sometimes you have to work on code with super-deep indents I got downvoted to negative infinity for shitty code management.
- mattgreenrocks 1 month ago
- pimlottc 1 month agoAside from the code, there's also a ton of great design documents and notes under /docs/design [0], including detailed process diagrams for many of the user flows (unfortunately not directly viewable online since they're within zip files; see flow1.zip and flow2.zip)
0: https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/tree/main/docs/des...
- jmisavage 1 month agoFound the repo over here if anyone is curious.
- anigbrowl 1 month ago[flagged]
- dylan604 1 month agoThis is a service. What happens if some ideologue turns off whatever is listening on the government's end? Unless this forked version will then print out a bunch of forms for someone to physically mail in, owning this software without being able to communicate to a digital host is useless.
- BHSPitMonkey 1 month ago> Unless this forked version will then print out a bunch of forms for someone to physically mail in
Well yes, this is in essence what tax return preparation software has always been; The end result is a completed set of values to fill into the boxes of form 1040 (and whatever additional forms are deemed to be required), which can then be filed electronically or written/printed on paper to be returned at an office or by mail.
- rsti0000 1 month agoThe IRS accepts efilings in a prescribed format so that isnt a danger. If you look at a tax transcript produced from efiling vs a paper return, there is no material difference besides the fields related to how they were submitted.
- BHSPitMonkey 1 month ago
- dataflow 1 month agoIf you're actually worried about this, you should be cloning locally, not forking.
- 90s_dev 1 month agoOr just glance at the code out of idle curiosity and move on with our lives?
- timewizard 1 month agoNever turn down an opportunity to spew breathless hyperbole into Hacker News!
- timewizard 1 month ago
- dylan604 1 month ago
- anigbrowl 1 month ago
- timerol 1 month agoWho among us has not accidentally made a new repo as just a submodule pointer instead of actually committing the files? https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/commit/2f3ebd66932...
It's also fun that, because this is from the US, they can't just use CC0, but instead need to clarify that this must be public domain, separately from the worldwide CC0.
- runako 1 month agoAnother way of saying this: Creative Commons, based in California, USA, did not publish a license that can be used by one of the largest domestic authors of software.
Less snarkily, I do wonder about the discrepancy there.
- gowld 1 month agoCategory Error. Public Domain is not a license. It is a state of being.
Creative Commons is a worldwide organization, not a jurisdiction-specfic organization. Creative Commons does not have the authority to harmonize laws worldwide.
- deepsun 1 month agoIn other words, think of Copyright. A Copyright holder can apply any license they like, and change the licenses for new versions whenever they like. Public Domain is explicit forfeiting the Copyright, which means authors cannot enforce any license (and anyone can just take their work and declare it it's theirs, apply licenses etc).
PS: AFAIK, however, Authorship rights are different from Copyright, and cannot be given/passed as Copyrights, at least in US.
- deepsun 1 month ago
- globular-toast 4 weeks agoIt's not that they can't, it's just pointless to offer a licence for something that's in the public domain.
Also it's important to remember these works are not in the public domain because someone declared them to be, they are simply because they are works carried out by the US government. Similar to how copyright is automatic, it's not applied only when you put the copyright symbol, that's just informational.
- gowld 1 month ago
- runako 1 month ago
- ronbenton 4 weeks agoFavorite quote(s)
>But as I told the team as the end closed in, “We took a pipedream, and made it a policy choice.” No one can claim with a straight face that Direct File is impossible anymore; bringing it back requires only that our elected leaders make a different choice.
>What I mourn the most, though, is the dissolution of the team, the disregard for the vast impact they were poised and eager to deliver. The team itself is what I am proudest of from my time working on Direct File. Their manic dedication to the mission. The care they consistently took to get it right. The trust and love they had for each other.
- tomhow 4 weeks agoI moved this from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44187512
- 4 weeks ago
- tomhow 4 weeks ago
- timhigins 1 month ago> Exempted Code
> Not all source code, documentation and metadata used in the development of Direct File is included in this repository. Specifically, any code or data that is considered Personally Identifiable Information (PII), Federal Tax Information (FTI), Sensitive But Unclassified (SBU), or source code developed for National Security Systems (NSS), as defined in 40 U.S.C. § 11103, is exempt. Due to these restrictions, certain pieces of functionality have been removed or rewritten.
Very curious about what these pieces are that were removed
- dlcarrier 4 weeks agoIt's probably a boilerplate notice put on all releases. Sometimes they aren't even allowed to explicitly state that something was excluded, so they have to put that notice on all releases, so there's no way to infer which releases have exclusions.
- dlcarrier 4 weeks ago
- ronbenton 1 month agoSadly this program is being killed by the current admin. This repo looks great. The scala fact graph is super neat and there is clearly a lot of care that went into making the tutorial for it.
- ryandrake 1 month agoI'm sure everyone working on this knew it was doomed before the first line of code was written, and that it would be killed as soon as the next (R) was in charge. It was a great accomplishment to get working software released before that happened, but I'm sure nobody was kidding themselves into thinking it would last. The pay-to-file tax lobby is too strong and corrupt.
- afavour 1 month agoI don't know about that. Inertia is a strong force but it goes in both directions. Had this administration been a Democratic one four years might be long enough to establish it strongly enough that it would be very difficult to remove. Look at the Affordable Care Act. Imperfect though it was, Republicans have pledged over and over that they're going to get rid of it but when it power it seems they just can't.
- ryandrake 1 month agoI hope you're right, but this administration so far has found almost no limit to the number of projects, lives, roles and institutions it can destroy or at least attempt to destroy. And the party that is supposed to be acting as the Opposition is basically letting them do whatever they want unhindered. Unless you consider "holding up little signs and making frowny-faces" to count as "doing something."
- PaulDavisThe1st 1 month agoThe House budget bill is likely to separate more people from health insurance coverage than the ACA increased it by. It may not be an explicitly "repeal the ACA" act, but practically speaking, it will have a similar effect.
- ryandrake 1 month ago
- analogwzrd 1 month agoA couple of decades ago tax code transparency and making it easier and cheaper to file your taxes would have been a very Republican policy. Point taken that the current administration is particularly destructive, but I wouldn't expect Democrats to be very staunch in support this either. The tax/accountant lobby would influence both parties.
- shigawire 1 month agoBut Democrats created the program? Why do you expect they wouldn't support it?
- paleotrope 4 weeks agoTax return on a postcard is still in the Republican area of ideas, but they can't seem to get enough actual Congressional Republicans to come on board. It's frustrating. The problem to me is that the Democrats have become so uncompetitive in large swathes of the country, that too many center/moderates/status quos adapt Republican cover to get into office.
I'm sure Democrats can complain about their Senators in the same language.
- shigawire 1 month ago
- standardUser 4 weeks agoIt is not typical for an (R) administration to aggressively reverse every decision made by their predecessor. Historically, citizens, businesses and government agencies could all expect significantly more stability from one administration to the next.
- pjc50 1 month agoI don't think so - the destructiveness of the current administration is really unprecedented.
- zbentley 4 weeks ago> it was doomed before the first line of code was written
The Direct File system was live more than a year ago, I thought: https://www.usds.gov/impact-report/2024/directfile/
…or did you mean “eventually doomed” rather than “doomed to not ship at all”?
- 90s_dev 4 weeks agoAll software has an expiration date.
- afavour 1 month ago
- andreygrehov 1 month agoThe bill was introduced by the Republican party (Nick Langworthy, co-sponsored by William Timmons). Don't spread misleading/fake information.
- junar 4 weeks agoNo, I think you have it mixed up. It's quite clear that the authority came from the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act, which was was well known to have passed without a single Republican vote. It's also quite clear that in the context of the top-level comment, "this program" mentioned means the Direct File as it operates, not the release of source code.
> The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) was signed into law in August 2022.1 Section 10301(1)(B) of the IRS provided the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) with $15 million to establish a task force to design an IRS-run, free direct electronic filing (e-file) system commonly referred to as “Direct File” ...
https://www.tigta.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2025-03/20...
You're bringing up an unrelated law that didn't even exist at the time of the launch of Direct File in early 2024.
- andreygrehov 4 weeks agoI was under the impression that the OP was talking about the SHARE It Act.
- andreygrehov 4 weeks ago
- aquova 1 month agoThat would be the current ruling party
- andreygrehov 1 month agoThat is the current ruling party. Nobody is trying to kill the SHARE It Act. The Direct File was a pilot program. There are other options: https://www.irs.gov/filing/irs-free-file-do-your-taxes-for-f...
- andreygrehov 1 month ago
- junar 4 weeks ago
- ryandrake 1 month ago
- Zambyte 4 weeks agoWhy was the IRS-Public[0] group created for this, instead of using the existing irsgov[1] group?
- divbzero 1 month agoRelated discussion from last week:
IRS Direct File - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44131901 - May 2025 (62 comments)
- adamdecaf 1 month agoThere's quite the mix of languages involved!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Language files blank comment code ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- YAML 452 158 693 161655 JSON 396 1 0 155975 JavaScript 7 21 4513 123150 TypeScript 741 7913 19645 80869 XML 66 5208 1006 60935 Java 725 7380 2283 37863 Scala 272 3275 1423 25395 CSV 146 0 0 25335 Markdown 86 5019 21 9228 SVG 12 5 1749 9130 HTML 39 52 4 4073 Maven 16 61 87 1963 SCSS 47 380 85 1662 Scheme 5 121 0 864 Python 13 185 96 668 Bourne Shell 17 94 127 541 DOS Batch 2 30 0 268 CSS 1 17 0 81 Properties 9 0 24 60 Text 3 1 0 35 TOML 1 6 0 26 Dockerfile 1 8 1 19 INI 1 0 0 7 SQL 4 0 0 5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SUM: 3062 29935 31757 699807 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- epcoa 1 month agoOther than the flourish of adding some Scala to enterprisey Java there is absolutely nothing atypical about this bog enterprisey application. It’s a JS/TS/Java app, nothing else stands out.
Listing every config language and a few lines of CI or whatever scripts shit is misleading.
I see nothing other than typical boring enterprise/big gov crap here (which is fine, and expected).
- ranie93 4 weeks agooff-topic: would you share how you compiled this info?
- wonger_ 4 weeks agoLooks like https://github.com/AlDanial/cloc
- wonger_ 4 weeks ago
- epcoa 1 month ago
- UncleOxidant 1 month ago> Please note: As of two weeks ago, I no longer work at the IRS. I am writing solely in my personal capacity.
It's too bad the current Administration is going to kill DirectFile and has fired all the people who were working on it.
- paxys 1 month agoTurboTax isn't "trying to kill" it they have successfully killed it. Intuit donated $1M to Trump's inaugration fund, and the Trump administation subsequently ended support for Direct File (which I'm assuming is why it was open sourced). The IRS will no longer accept returns directly. 18F itself was disbanded by doge, so even though the code is open source no one is going to continue to develop it.
- janeerie 1 month agoThis isn't true - you can still submit through Direct File: https://directfile.irs.gov/
- paxys 1 month agoFor the 2024 tax season yes. Funding bill removes it for 2025 onward.
- paxys 1 month ago
- vjvjvjvjghv 4 weeks agoSeems around 1M is the price for pardons or changing of tariffs in favor of the donor.
Disbanding 18F was a crime. This made it abundantly clear that the E doesn't stand for efficiency.
- aksss 1 month ago
- pakyr 4 weeks agoInteresting, thanks for reinforcing the point. I would note the two columns 'From Individuals' (which includes all employees) vs. the 'From Organization' column. Worth noting that the R-affiliated GOPAC is the only listed recipient that actually recieved funds from the organization.
Of course, this page doesn't include the $1M inauguration donation, so it's still incomplete.
- aksss 4 weeks agoI suppose we all see what we want to see and have reasons to explain away any dissonance. $1m to an inauguration committee for an already elected president might counterbalance the disproportionate donations to democrats during campaign season from execs, employees, and their family members. I mean, bet on the wrong horse, amends must be made, right? Money goes where the power is. If it hadn’t been Trump, Intuit would be working Joe Kamala. The data is the data.
- aksss 4 weeks ago
- pakyr 4 weeks ago
- janeerie 1 month ago
- ctkhn 1 month agoLove that the repo has two commits and they're both "initial commit"
- dylan604 1 month agoi've done that when i forgot to add some necessary files in the initial initial commit. since the adding the forgotten files did not include any changes warranting a different message, it lets me know i was a knucklehead and the commits are meant be considered the same commit. it's much faster than looking up to see if there's a way to amend an existing commit with additional files, and then going through the process of actually doing it. my use of git is add/commit/push/clone/switch/fetch. after that, it's 100% look it up and hope i'm not going to bork my repo by following some SO thread
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1 month agoFor what it's worth, you can still do it with those commands, though I understand part of the point is that you don't necessarily remember all of the options for them. But in this case, it should be simple:
I don't know when `--amend` was added. I used to do a squash rebase but this is much nicer.git add . git commit --amend -m "initial commit" git push -f origin HEAD
- Terr_ 4 weeks ago> I used to do a squash rebase
This probably wouldn't apply to the "initial commit" problem, but I almost always use fixup instead of amend, ex:
Unlike amend, you can target an older commit rather than just the very-most-recent (great if you're separating the rename/refactor from the rewrite) and you can delay the second step of actually changing history until you're sure stuff is in a good state.git add foo.code git commit --fixup {commit_with} git rebase -i --autosquash {main_or_whatever}
This is particularly useful for the review process: All the changes during the review process can be "fixup" commits, allowing reviewers to easily see what did (or didn't) change since their last interaction. At the same time, all the fiddly fixes and back-and-forth stuff won't be in the final history, only a smaller number of "real" commits that future maintainers would care about.
- monkpit 1 month ago
git commit --amend --no-edit
- tczMUFlmoNk 4 weeks ago--amend was added in 2006 :-)
https://github.com/git/git/commit/b4019f045646b1770a80394da8...
- Terr_ 4 weeks ago
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1 month ago
- sotix 1 month agoThe government required them to scrub the commit history. Hilarious that they used that message for the second commit.
- dylan604 1 month ago
- 1-more 3 weeks agoIRS knows what a bifunctor is. What an amazing day https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/blob/9dd76a786ea69...
- 1 month ago
- cookingmyserver 1 month agoI enjoyed walking through some of their docs which documented decisions and deliverables. Thought for sure it would have just been a dump of source code with little to no context.
- bigon 4 weeks agoWait, the USA/IRS is not providing a free platform for individuals to fill their tax?
- Hilift 4 weeks agoThere is this year. Maybe not going forward. I tried to use it but it was easier to print the PDF and mail it. I also recall there were two different systems, DirectFile is one of the two, and it integrates with participating state tax systems.
- bigon 4 weeks agoIn Belgium we have "tax on web" for more than 20 years and since a few years 90% of the things pre-filled for simple situations (mainly people without kids)
- GuB-42 4 weeks agoSame thing in France, and I believe most developed countries by now.
The situation is a bit different for business owners though, and most of them hire an accountant for this task. Doing it yourself can be risky as you may be committing tax fraud without realizing it before you get audited, or you may end up overpaying.
- GuB-42 4 weeks ago
- bigon 4 weeks ago
- PopAlongKid 4 weeks agoAnyone can download files for all the forms and schedules, then fill print and mail for the cost of postage.
- mdaniel 4 weeks agoI can't tell if you're "/s" but this strikes me as "anyone can download the SMTP RFCs and roll their own mail server" but that's not the same as actually running a mail server due to the monstrous amount of non-functional requirements that have been applied to that space over the years
To the best of my knowledge, the tax filer is responsible for knowing the law, which includes amendments made almost every Congressional session, the court rulings upon both of those things, the judicial meaning of the English words used in all that corpus, and then one can get into the pdfs and their printing and mailing. Or all of those lawyers and enrolled agents can be rented at tax time in order to outsource some of the liability, and thus that's how we end up with the current cesspool of a system we have
- PopAlongKid 4 weeks agoVery few taxpayers need to tread into the obscure corners of the tax code, regulations, court cases, and so on.
In fact, the tax forms and accompanying instructions are written at a level that anyone with a high school education should be able to understand. Examples are often included, along with call-outs for "Tips" and "Caution" to highlight key points.
Further, there are dozens of publications that go into more detail and cover probably 90% or more of all the scenarios one would encounter. Pub 17 in particular is a beginning-to-end handbook that covers Form 1040 and the common forms/schedules and the entire filing process, with references to other pubs when appropriate, again all written at a high-school level.
These are available in both PDF and HTML formats. Recall that electronic filing has only been around for a few decades, so prior to that everyone used to fill and file on paper The IRS has long history of providing the necessary instructions to do so at a level accessible to the vast majority of users.
It is also a fact that the tax software providers use these same instructions and publications as the specifications that their software must meet. Literally, they will hold up release of various forms for filing using their software until the IRS finalizes the accompanying form instructions.
- PopAlongKid 4 weeks ago
- mdaniel 4 weeks ago
- Hilift 4 weeks ago
- BrandoElFollito 1 month agoWhat is the core reason for the government in the US to not provide a simple online tax filing portal like we generally have in Europe.
It is pre-filled with the known incomes so for the best majority of people filling their taxes is a 1 minute exercise.
This also helps, I guess, to have the taxes flow in.
- tallowen 1 month agoThe US tax code isn't created to work like this. Direct file asked many questions about things like dependent children, whether you're blind and whether you have an HSA - all things that are relevant to your taxes that aren't actually available to the government right now.
Secondly, there is the issue of State / Local taxes - the IRS only receives federal tax data making it hard to automatically fill out the whole tax return since efiling products tend to file federal / state taxes together.
This year, direct file allowed people to import their W2s and 1099-INTs automatically based on the information the IRS had: https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/blob/main/direct-f...
- yencabulator 4 weeks agoThese are obstacles not the core reason.
- yencabulator 4 weeks ago
- hoten 1 month agolobbying on behalf of the tax filing industry
additionally, the US has (one of?) the most complex tax systems in the world. In part b/c most of it is carve outs...on behalf of various lobbyist groups / catering to specific voting blocks.
- alemanek 1 month agoThat is still no excuse.
The majority of the population of the US claims the standard deduction and has all their income in the form of W2 or 1099 which is reported to the IRS by the employer. Those people can be served by a return free filing system.
The minority which have more complicated taxes can still file like they do today. But even adding on investment income and housing related deductions the IRS likely has enough information to calculate what is owed.
We shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of better. I know you weren’t arguing that point but just because the tax code is complex doesn’t mean it is complex for everyone’s situation
- alemanek 1 month ago
- 1 month ago
- weberer 1 month agoEntering your income is easy enough if you're a salaried employee with a W2 form. The time consuming part is searching for and entering deductions. The tax code is ridiculously complex and there are forms for all sorts of deductions.
- jonas21 1 month ago90% of people take the standard deduction, which takes maybe 10 seconds to enter.
- throw678937 1 month agoEven if you're pulling in 100% of your income through a W-2 job and you're sure you're not itemizing, you have to consider excluded income, above-the-line deductions, and refundable and non-refundable credits. Oh, and do you live alone or might you claim a dependent,[1] and on and on and on. People spend their whole lives on this stuff and still don't understand the half of it.
[1] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xtyyMPczy6nuj_QR4Jy4J8sf8f3...
- throw678937 1 month ago
- jonas21 1 month ago
- timewizard 1 month agoThe same reason the US moves more of the worlds money through commercial and investment services hosted here.
Ask anyone in the EU who has lived in one country and earned a paycheck from a different one.
Anyways, give it time, the EU is currently working to make it's tax system more complicated to solve some of the long standing continental issues, and to make the EU system more like the US one.
- pjc50 1 month agoThe EU doesn't have a federal tax system for individuals.
- timewizard 4 weeks agoThe EU has tons of binding tax agreements.
- timewizard 4 weeks ago
- pjc50 1 month ago
- Sivart13 1 month agothis was supposed to be exactly that
- tallowen 1 month agoIn fact it did do that! Direct File imported W2s, 1099-INTs and other data during the filing season that ended in April.
https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/blob/main/direct-f...
- tallowen 1 month ago
- tallowen 1 month ago
- 1 month ago
- 1 month ago
- johnwatson11218 4 weeks agoEveryone is talking about having LLMs write software but what about having them delete code? That can be very hard in a legacy enterprise environment. I think dead code detection overlaps with security and that is a good way to sell that kind of code clean up. Having LLMs review your architecture is a fun exercise, being able to incorporate that feedback is a good measure for the dev teams.
- thuanao 1 month agoIn my experience the paper forms are so much easier and more reliable than using tax software. A pen and a form just works. No account logins and passwords, no janky UI, no advertisements, no issues saving your progress... The instructions are much better too. Each box is numbered and there's an instruction manual detailing what to put in that box. If you make mistakes the IRS will simply correct you.
- pfg_ 1 month agoThe problem I had with the papers is they don't tell you when you need to have another form. Guided question software will ask questions to determine if you need forms.
- pfg_ 1 month ago
- cebert 4 weeks agoThis code base is clean and well-crafted. I appreciate the extensive documentation. It’s unfortunate that Direct File was affected by budget cuts.
- nickthegreek 4 weeks agobudget cuts had nothing to do with it. this was a lobbied choice.
- nickthegreek 4 weeks ago
- zb3 1 month ago
- elif 4 weeks agoSeems like an anti-pattern to involve so many unique human perspectives on who owes what. An authority should establish what taxes are owed objectively, and the system should just send out invoices.
If you have a problem with that, build a robust appeal process. Essentially what we have now is an appeal process for every single person.
- ted_dunning 4 weeks agoThis ignores the reality that the authority in question doesn't have all of the necessary information. This isn't just a matter of reporting wages and such, it also involves decisions such as accounting information such as depreciation periods, business expenses and many other factors.
- kjkjadksj 4 weeks agoYet the audit arm is revenue positive so the system already works like this.
- kjkjadksj 4 weeks ago
- ted_dunning 4 weeks ago
- czhu12 1 month agoGiven this project is being drained of resources by the new admin, is anyone in the know able to comment on how hard this would be to take, and stand up, as a competitor to turbo tax?
Presumably, any Intuit competitors will be given a 10 year headstart worth many millions, maybe billions?
- foolswisdom 1 month agoIs there a reason you'd need to do so? What is freetaxusa.com missing that direct file gives you (other than the fact that direct file is free and supported by the government itself)?
- 1oooqooq 4 weeks agofreetaxusa doesn't cover the cases for almost everyone here. ever bought stocks? out!
also, you need to submit selfies and have a usa sim card from specific providers.
- foolswisdom 4 weeks agoNeed to submit selfies? I don't recall submitting selfies.
I own stocks, all I had to do was fill in the forms on freetaxusa.com based on the forms the brokerage gave me. Just look for non zero fields on the brokerage forms, and fill out the matching box.
If you mean something more sophisticated tax-wise, then I'm sure direct file wouldn't support it either?
Regarding the sim card, I assume that's about two factor codes? IIRC I always logged in through a code received by email.
- foolswisdom 4 weeks ago
- TsiCClawOfLight 4 weeks agoExpat support.
- furyg3 4 weeks agoIf anyone has any tips for the most cost effective way for expats to file, please share them here.
I'm doing it all by hand because I'm tired of going through the 'free' apps and entering in all my details, and when I get ready to file it end up being hundreds of dollars to file since the other forms (extra 1040 schedules, 2555, etc) are not included.
- furyg3 4 weeks ago
- 1oooqooq 4 weeks ago
- d0gsg0w00f 1 month agoWhere does it say that this project is impacted by the 11% layoffs?
- foolswisdom 1 month ago
- yonran 1 month agoWhat would it take for an individual or small business to run a version of this locally? To file, you need an MeF account with IRS; does the IRS grant those freely? And to import W2s and 1099s, it seems that there is a DataImportService interface but unfortunately there is no implementation and the APIs to IRS are not public.
If the Biden administration wanted to break the tax software oligopoly, they should have focused on making the government’s own interfaces open.
- insane_dreamer 4 weeks agoI wonder whether Cash App's free filing service (used it for the first time last year and it was very good even for my somewhat complicated taxes) is based on this?
- vjvjvjvjghv 4 weeks agoWeren't they also working on a system that would send you a prefilled return with all information filled in the IRS already has?
- colelyman 1 month agoI went to the link thinking that I could now file my taxes with the IRS through GitHub, which I honestly have mixed feelings about.
- BHSPitMonkey 1 month agoThat's an idea... Make a fork, add a file at taxpayers/${SSN}.yaml describing your return in terms of income/deductions/circumstances, make sure it lints successfully, and then submit a PR for the IRS to review. If it's merged, CI/CD initiates a bank payment/withdrawal. If you get audited, resolve the conflicts and update the PR.
- BHSPitMonkey 1 month ago
- skrebbel 1 month agoWow public domain license! Smart move, I assume those disgruntled devs who "joined a project to explore the “future of tax filing” in the private sector" can now easily fork it and compete with TurboTax directly (with, I hope, a much better product at a lower price). Normally that'd feel a bit scummy but in this case I can't fault them for it.
Here's to hoping they can outcompete TurboTax so brutally that Intuit won't be able to pay for all those lobbyists anymore.
- Rebelgecko 1 month agoIIRC public domain is actually the "default" for code released by the government
- haiku2077 1 month agoYes, works of the US Federal Government are public domain. It gets complicated when state governments, contractors, etc. are involved, but Direct File was in-house work by USDS/18F.
- kj4ips 4 weeks agoYep, one of the more popular FOSS CNC controllers (LinuxCNC) draws its heritage from a NIST project, and at least one major manufacturer ships a variant of it in their machines.
- haiku2077 1 month ago
- BHSPitMonkey 1 month agoFTA:
> Releasing Direct File’s source code demonstrates that the IRS is fulfilling its obligations under the SHARE IT Act[1] (three weeks ahead of schedule!).
[1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/9566
- gowld 1 month agoTurboTax already has competitors.
- AStonesThrow 1 month agoAlthough it is written in the "LICENSE" file for purposes of uniformity and GitHub compatibility, a dedication to the Public Domain is not a "license". As you can see, they waive all their rights to claim copyright protection, and therefore, no license is possible; no license is necessary to use it for any purpose.
And yes, "As a work of the US Government" it is dedicated to the Public Domain by law.
- Rebelgecko 1 month ago
- piker 1 month ago> libs
Guys I knew it
- WorldPeas 4 weeks agofork this repo so you can own the libs
- WorldPeas 4 weeks ago
- eamann 1 month agoIt's a bit disappointing that a seemingly official project isn't using commit signing for verification and non-repudiation. It's open source, great! But it's also pretty massive (i.e. hard to review everything) and the chance of a bad actor sticking code in something so critical as tax filings.
- deepsun 1 month agoKinda. Since it's Public Domain, there's little to no use in signing the code, because they explicitly forfeited any rights to it.
Public Domain means you can legally take their code, riddle it with malware, and distribute, claiming that's the real and true Direct File source code, and you are its author. What you do with malware is a different legal issue of course.
So I'm not sure proving you are commit owner by signing it is really helpful if anyone can do it as well, and there's no copyright holder to decide who's right.
- justinrubek 1 month agoCopyright doesn't have anything to do with it, even remotely. I don't care who owns it or who claims to own it. But it may be useful to verify that the commit came from the government.
- deepsun 1 month agoBut how do you verify?
Let's say you see a green checkmark on GitHub that confirms the commit was really made by GitHub user @totally_legit_government_absolutely_not_hacker.
Unless you already have their public GPG key in your private keychain, and you marked it as "trusted" previously, there's not really much more info to that.
UPDATE: besides, the government is like a million people, some of them are malicious actors.
- deepsun 1 month ago
- justinrubek 1 month ago
- pfg_ 1 month agoYou don't know what they used internally. There are two commits on github which just dump the code from whatever they used for version control for the past two years, and no further development will take place.
- dylan604 1 month agowhat could it really do though? any discrepancies will just be settled in an audit. of course, you are providing name, address, SSN, bank account info, but what malevolent entity doesn't already have that data about you anyways? besides, trust us, we're the government is good enough already! /s
- deepsun 1 month ago
- monksy 3 weeks agoThe fact graph service uses scala!
- jsmo 4 weeks agoThanks for sharing!
- ivanjermakov 1 month ago> The source code is only public because of federal law
I doubt contributions are welcome
- 1 month ago
- vagab0nd 1 month agoOk we now have "law is code".
When can we have "code is law"? Write the code as source of truth and generate the law from it.
- timewizard 1 month agoThe law has better properties when it comes to undefined behavior than code does.
- seattle_spring 1 month agoThat's what a smart contract is meant to represent, and they get taken advantage of every single day.
- timewizard 1 month ago
- internet_points 1 month ago> Direct File also incorporates the Fact Graph, a declarative, XML-based knowledge graph data structure that is designed to reason about incomplete information, such as a partially completed tax return. The Fact Graph is written in the Scala programming language; it runs on the JVM on the backend and is transpiled via Scala.js to run on the client as well. Direct File's Fact Graph is not domain-specific, and it may be useful to revenue agencies and as a reference for business rules engine implementations.
- timhigins 1 month agoThe code that defines how the fact graph works is here: https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/tree/main/direct-f...
but the actual tax definitions that deal with facts and derived calculation are here: https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/tree/main/direct-f...
See for example the standard deduction and tax rate calculations https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/blob/main/direct-f...https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/blob/main/direct-f...
I imagine these are based on the MeF (Modernized e-File) schemas because the system needs to transform the input data into XML MeF schemas to submit electronically to the MeF system (See https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/modernized-e-file-mef-s...)
- throw678937 4 weeks ago"A Fact Graph is a DAG, just like Excel." [1] A DAG won't work for everything! For example, the advance premium tax credit (i.e., the means-tested Obamacare health premium subsidy) has a circular relationship with the above-the-line deduction that self-employed people can take for healthcare costs. The IRS says you can iterate until you get stable values. [2]
[1] https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/blob/main/direct-f... [2] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rp-14-41.pdf
- MrLeap 1 month agoInteresting, I want to read more about this.
- 4 weeks ago
- timhigins 1 month ago
- pimlottc 1 month agoHere's the announcement from one of the principal engineers:
- dang 1 month agoThanks - I've changed the URL to that from https://www.404media.co/directfile-open-source-irs-tax-filin... above, since the latter continues to be signup-walled.
- no-reply 1 month agoIf anybody wants to read the 404 article - https://archive.is/U6j4b
- rsingel 1 month agoYou could also just sign up and read it on their site, and consider subscribing.
Journalism is labor
- rsingel 1 month ago
- rsingel 1 month agoIf you want indie publications to survive, please reconsider punishing sites that are sign-up walled.
- xp84 1 month agoIf they intend for a mass market to read their articles, indie publications should find a way to sell a user an article for a fair price. Especially in the context of coming from a news aggregator site, it's absurd that I'm going to buy a recurring subscription for Tax Software Quarterly, Yacht Week, Greg's TV Reviews etc. The number of distinct domains I click through to from HN alone would be hundreds of dollars a month if I'm starting subscriptions for each one.
I hate and block ads, since they literally screw up the functioning of the page now, so I don't think they should "just have ads and be open" -- but I think expecting average non-journalists to sign up for subscriptions to multiple "national newspapers" and a half dozen news magazines is absurd, which is why people here don't like paywalls, and bypass them wherever possible.
- xp84 1 month ago
- no-reply 1 month ago
- 1 month ago
- dang 1 month ago
- delfugal 4 weeks ago[dead]
- piracyrules 4 weeks agoLet's not forget how IRS only goes after the small fishes in the pond. Billionaires get a free pass from them all the time.
- piracyrules 4 weeks ago[flagged]
- tonymet 1 month ago[flagged]
- prophesi 1 month agoIntuit and their millions in lobbying efforts might change the administration's thoughts on that.
- BHSPitMonkey 1 month ago• IRS Direct File launched in 2024 after being created via the Biden administration's Inflation Reduction Act in 2024.
• The Trump administration is preparing to sign into law a new budget that orders the immediate termination of the Direct File program (see SEC. 112207 "TASK FORCE ON THE TERMINATION OF DIRECT FILE").
• 18F, the agency within the federal government probably most responsible for championing and promoting open source development (and just all-around providing good digital services at a significantly lower cost), was eliminated by the Trump administration in March.
I know that you are probably a busy person, like many of us here; Still, I would encourage you to take some time each week to become informed about what is (or isn't) happening in politics rather than just offering knee-jerk reactions based on partisan feelings. It really is important.
- const_cast 1 month agoExcept that Trump has already prevented us from using it. He axed it, beginning next tax season.
It's not a boogie-man, Trump really does just suck. He's anti like, anything even good-adjacent.
- lagniappe 1 month agoI see you've discovered the reddit-to-HN flywheel.
- prophesi 1 month ago
- dustbunny 1 month ago[flagged]
- shrinks99 1 month agoThe Canadian government doesn't provide a DirectFile equivalent. The closest thing we have is Wealthsimple's tax software which just _happens_ to be free (and for what it's worth, in my experience, is also pretty good).
I would love for the Canadian government to release free tax software analogous to DirectFile!
- slavik81 4 weeks agoIt also takes me a while to collect and calculate all the information required for the home office tax credits and the cost basis for stocks I've sold or moved to my RRSP or TFSA. I probably spent six hours on it this year.
- slavik81 4 weeks ago
- uticus 1 month agopersonally i'd prefer a tax system that was easy enough to understand in an hour. like, really simple, instead of a complex bag of sticks and carrots. less waste, less time, more clarity on how much productivity is partitioned off for government services.
would really render moot the "TurboTax lobbying", "government already has info", etc conversations.
- boznz 1 month agoNZ Tax system is like this, takes me an hour to do my company yearly returns on their website, an hour every month for the GST and 15 mins every month for the payroll and kiwisaver (pension) of two employees.
The fact they have an "other" category in the IR10 form that captures the breakdown means I don't have to worry too much about terms that mean nothing to me or my business and 90% of my earnings can just goes in that. No need for an accountant as long as you have good separation of business and personal transactions.
Doing tax is always going to be unpleasant, I don't see any downside to the government making it easier for the person filing the return.
- weberer 1 month agoPeople have been fighting that battle for a while now. It never seems to get off the ground
- ac29 1 month agoMoving from a progressive tax structure to a (mostly) regressive one is a bad idea, so I am glad FairTax never went anywhere.
I am all for simplifying the tax code but consumption taxes are the wrong way to go about it.
- vjvjvjvjghv 4 weeks ago"Fair tax" is just an attempt to lower the tax rate of higher incomes that get hit by progressive brackets. Same for "flat tax". Calculating the tax rate is easy, the real problem is always to determine what gets taxed. That's where the loopholes are.
- ac29 1 month ago
- deepsun 1 month agoI haven't seen any evidence on "government already has info". It might get all the info if they send a taxpayer into audit. But there's no indication it really knows without audits.
- Spoom 1 month agoNo, the government already has almost all of your information every year from the start. Every time you get a W-2, a copy is sent to the IRS. Same with the vast majority of most tax forms. That why, if you lose any of your forms (at least the ones that say something akin to "This information is being furnished to the Internal Revenue Service."), you can request them from the IRS[1].
Some investment-related returns aren't sent to the IRS but I would estimate that for 90% of people, their taxes could be accurately calculated by the information the IRS has on file.
Additionally, I guarantee that these calculations are being made by the government anyway. If you file a tax return that is mathematically incorrect, you are very likely to receive a correction letter from the IRS[2]. This isn't an audit, it's just a letter saying that your taxes were wrong and they redid them for you, with a new outcome.
1. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/transcript-types-for-individ... (see "Wage and income transcript")
2. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/understanding-your-cp12-noti...
- vjvjvjvjghv 4 weeks agoThe IRS has your 1099s and W-2s. For most people filing your taxes is this weird quiz where you file your taxes and the IRS checks your return against what they already know.
- uticus 1 month agosorry, doesn't apply to US, but does apply to other Western governments (note i'm not endorsing this, just pointing out it exists): https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/dreading-taxes-countries-s...
- Spoom 1 month ago
- boznz 1 month ago
- fhdkweig 1 month agoIt takes me half an hour with FreeTaxUSA . It can be easy, but TurboTax doesn't like their software to be easy for some reason.
- nulbyte 1 month agoIt took me about that long to do both fed and state with Free File Fillable Forms. I was so surprised, I wondered why I didn't check it out sooner. I think most Americans can do this just as easily.
I know folks outside the U.S. like to riff on us for our complicated taxes and the pay-for filing lobbies, and yes, they have reason to. But, I really think the issue is that we folk in the U.S. are just too scared to try what really is a simpler method.
- gbear605 4 weeks agoI do Free File Fillable Forms, and I’m something of an amateur tax expert - friends and family come to me for advice. But yet every year there’s some weird edge case that I have to figure out by digging through the Schedule D instructions or the 1040 instructions or… Sometimes I’ll go through one of the paid systems up until the submission step where you have to pay, to make sure that my numbers line up.
The system is just really complicated if you have anything weird, and “anything weird” happens a lot.
- gbear605 4 weeks ago
- GuinansEyebrows 1 month ago"some reason" is that they upsell you on additional features and "audit protection" in case you misuse their complicated software.
- vjvjvjvjghv 4 weeks agoFreeTaxUSA is great but it took me much longer to figure how to deal with sales of RSUs.
- nulbyte 1 month ago
- mig39 1 month agoEven easier if your employer automatically syncs with CRA. No filling in forms at all.
In other countries, the government does the taxes for you, and sends you a pre-filled form that you can amend or change.
- dustbunny 1 month agoyeah employer has always synced, so it (wealth simple) autofills basically everything. then i just add my family specific stuff
- dustbunny 1 month ago
- xmprt 1 month agojust want to chime in to say that it's around that fast in the US as well
Most people will just have to enter their W2, choose the standard deduction, and then click submit. There are free tools that do this already like FreeTaxUSA.
That said, I have 2 gripes with the current system:
1. companies like TurboTax lobbying to prevent the government from building their own tool... if TurboTax is genuinely better then people will still use it even if the govt builds a tool.
2. the tax code being so complex that it's profitable for wealthy people to avoid taxes with special deductions and hire lawyers to defend them from the overstretched IRS.
- supplied_demand 1 month ago== it's around that fast in the US as well==
Do you have a source for this claim, because I found this:
==Individual income tax return filing is the most time-consuming element of the tax system, with the average taxpayer spending 13 hours to comply with the Form 1040. For individuals with business income, the average amount of time it takes to file taxes is even higher: 24 hours.==
- xmprt 1 month agoMaybe I'm just extremely fast but I can't imagine it taking that long because like I mentioned, it's just those 3 steps for most taxpayers. It's hard to explain unless you've actually filed taxes in the US which most foreigners haven't.
The estimates you shared are based on survey responses so you'd have to take them with a grain of salt. All the other websites are repeating the same survey.
- ToValueFunfetti 1 month ago13 hours is wild. I bought a house, got married, sold a bunch of stock, and qualified for a bunch of deductions last year. We filed jointly in maybe an hour and a half, including finding all of the paperwork. I'm pretty good with numbers and instructions, so I could see 4-6 being the average.
It was through freetaxusa, maybe handwriting balloons the job a bit? But it looks like only 14% file physically.
- weberer 1 month ago13 hours is an insane estimate. Its never taken me more than an hour or two. There's no way that's the average
- xmprt 1 month ago
- supplied_demand 1 month ago
- mashlol 1 month agoWhat makes it easier than US taxes?
- tannschnauzer 1 month ago[dead]
- 4 weeks ago
- shrinks99 1 month ago
- uticus 1 month ago[flagged]
- FergusArgyll 1 month agoWow, deepwiki is really cool
- FergusArgyll 1 month ago