Swift and the Cute 2d game framework: Setting up a project with CMake
100 points by pusewicz 1 month ago | 84 comments- 90s_dev 1 month agoLast night I tried for maybe about 6 hours so many combinations of efforts to compile a C++, SDL3 and Lua program on Windows, with different IDEs, build systems, compilers, package managers etc. Finally I'm just giving up and using VS with CMake and vcpkg. The main problem is that there's way too many words on all those documentation pages. It would have taken 3 or 4 days to read them all, and maybe only 2 hours worth of it would have been helpful or relevant at all.
- dustbunny 1 month agoI agree. I used chatgpt to write a makefile to compile sokol+Tracy. It's a pretty solid, generic makefile. But "build system complexity" pushed me away from sdl, magnum graphics and bgfx into the arms of sokol.
And I'm a 10+ year gamedev.
Out of all of c++'s sins, the lack of a solid integrated build system is the one that bites me the most.
- 90s_dev 1 month agoMy theory is that good C++ devs haven't yet made a simple yet powerful build system because they're too busy making lots and lots of money writing enterprise C++.
- dazzawazza 1 month agoWe all just accepted CMake. It's not perfect but it works. C++ with SDL and Lua in a mono repo should be trivial. SDL3 supports CMake and Lua is simple to compile and make a CMakeLists.txt for.
- shortrounddev2 1 month agoVisual Studio + MSBuild is simple if you're okay with IDEs
- dazzawazza 1 month ago
- dieortin 1 month agoI really recommend Bazel (https://bazel.build)
- pusewicz 1 month agoWhat us better about it?
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- 90s_dev 1 month ago
- rudedogg 1 month agoIf you’re interested in Zig check out https://github.com/castholm/SDL.
Try the breakout example, I play around with it a lot. You’ll just need the Zig 0.14 compiler and it should be painless.
- 90s_dev 1 month agoSomething about me has always wanted to learn and master C++. I've read through Stroustrup's book almost entirely, and still never written a single line of C++. I don't know why I have this goal in life, but I do. This project still doesn't do that, since I'm just wrapping SDL3 with QuickJS and will probably almost entirely just write C functions to do it with. But a man can dream.
- 90s_dev 1 month ago
- raincole 1 month agoI wonder if there is a SDL3 wrapper that comes with a scripting language[0], hot reload and build scripts for every major platform.
Love2D seems close to that, but afaik it doesn't support SDL3 features like the new GPU API.
[0]: It's not like I'm allergic to C++, but I firmly believe when developing something that is mostly interactive, such as complex GUI or games, a language that is garbage collected and can be hot reloaded would be much more apt.
- pusewicz 1 month agoTry https://dragonruby.org/. It's great! Still on SDL2, but will migrate to SDL3 eventually.
Code reload (because it uses MRuby) is just :chef-kiss:
- python-b5 1 month agoDragonRuby seems interesting, but being a paid product immediately rules it out for me. I've been working on my own similar, smaller framework, which is more work, but I believe it's valuable not to depend on a for-profit company for your work, if at all possible.
Also, the attitude much of the wiki / promotional pages are written in for that framework runs me the wrong way for some reason. "Unity and GameMaker rot your brain"... are you kidding me? No they don't. You're still writing real code and solving real problems. They just have more systems in place you have to work within. I don't like the self-righteous attitude. It's fair to not want to go open source if that's your preference, but don't act like people who don't want to use closed-source software where possible are being unreasonable. I also don't see how what is effectively a Ruby wrapper for SDL3 is such an immensely complicated piece of engineering that it needs to cost as much as they're charging for it.
- raincole 1 month agoIt looks like Love2D, except you pay $50 to use Ruby instead of Lua (admittedly I think Ruby is a better language.)
I haven't used DragonRuby though, so if my above snarky comment is off please point me out.
- python-b5 1 month ago
- krapp 1 month agoYou can build a project linking SDL3 with Lua and have access to all of the features of SDL3, with the obvious caveat that you'll have to code the rest of the owl yourself, but it isn't difficult. I have a basic CMake script that I use for projects and it works fine. (also, obviously you can just run the Lua code locally and skip the build process altogether when developing.) I use LuaJIT though, and the FFI generator here[0].
- 90s_dev 1 month agoThat's what I'm working on, basically love2d but SDL3 and TS/JS (via QuickJS). And no box2d builtin, but easily importable via CDN.
- CJefferson 1 month agoObviously you can do what you like, but I'd advise making sure box2d (or similar) is super easy. Bonus points if there is also a built in function for drawing box2d objects.
I've often taught beginning game dev in a day, and with box2d in love2d you can very quickly make a wide selection of cool games, and while it's not perfect it makes it easy to get started making platforms, doing collisions, all sorts of things.
- raincole 1 month agoThat's my idea stack as well (I tried to build something like SDL2 + V8 at some point but ended up giving up...) If you have a repo/website set up please leave a link for me to follow :)
- 90s_dev 1 month ago... at least if I can get the simplest Visual Studio + CMake + vcpkg hello world working.
Which I can't.
This always happens every few years. It takes me about a week to get a C++ program compiling and running, and by the end of it, I've lost all motivation, forget how any of it works, and delete it all and move back to TypeScript/web stuff. At least that I know despite all its warts.
[edit] figured it out
Hello me from the future, googling this in a few years. It's actually really simple: just follow the same steps on that page you were on[1] except you HAVE TO run the `vcpkg new --application` and `vcpkg add port fmt` commands in the dev cmd prompt, you can't just add the file manually for some reason, even though that's all it seems like it's doing.
[1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/vcpkg/get_started/get-star...
- CJefferson 1 month ago
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- pjmlp 1 month ago- VS full install
- vcpgkg manifest file
- done
The problem is people pretending Windows is UNIX.
And UNIX community got lucky Apple decided to go with NeXTSTEP and not BeOS, otherwise those shiny fruit laptops would also be their own thing.
- 90s_dev 1 month agoThen how would you install quickjs? conan? download and copy the files manually?
- pjmlp 1 month agoWhy bother with conan, when vcpkg is already available and zero Python dependencies?
As for quickjs, it wasn't part of the comment, rather SDL3 and Lua.
> ...combinations of efforts to compile a C++, SDL3 and Lua program on Windows...
As such,
https://vcpkg.io/en/package/sdl3
- pjmlp 1 month ago
- 90s_dev 1 month ago
- whateveracct 1 month agoyeah, software development on Windows is just terrible.
I do gamedev on Linux for this reason. With Nix it isn't even that bad to cross-compile.
- syspec 1 month agoWhat's the relation of your comment to this blog post?
- 90s_dev 1 month agoMainly it just reminded me of what happened last night and seemed like good timing because of the similarity, but also I appreciate blog posts that are short and get right to the point of how to do something.
Half of the problems I got past were thanks to odd blog posts like this with code snippets that I found on google and got me unstuck immediately.
- syspec 1 month agoFair enough
- syspec 1 month ago
- 90s_dev 1 month ago
- dustbunny 1 month ago
- v1sea 1 month agoThanks for sharing a simple setup that avoids SwiftPM. It is nice to have more options.
Swift has to shed the perception that it only works on apple platforms. I've found the the C++ interop to be pretty good for my computer vision use cases.
- dlachausse 1 month agoWhat’s the advantage to avoiding SwiftPM? Is it just for simplicity or are there other advantages?
- pusewicz 1 month agoThe build process requires you to have a C library built with its own dependencies. I don’t think it’s very common to do that with SwiftPM, hence it would require extra work for it to happen.
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- pusewicz 1 month agoYeah, it's nice to use a cross-platform, well established tool to actually build a Swift project.
- anextio 1 month agoCMake support started as a community project but was adopted officially by Apple after they started adopting some Swift in the compiler codebase – an extremely large and complex CMake project – so the support is extremely robust now.
- anextio 1 month ago
- dlachausse 1 month ago
- DavidPiper 1 month agoSnap, I did something similar a few weeks ago (without the cool PoC) - github.com/davidrpiper/SwiftCmakeModulemapMVP
Now that Swift + SourceKit LSP + VS Code is a viable environment, and CMake supports C/C++ and Swift interop out-of-the-box, I'm keen to start using Swift for more cross-platform things.
- pusewicz 1 month agoI'm wondering if there will be anything new and cool announced next week during the WWDC in regards to Swift inter-op and cross-platform.
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- corytheboyd 1 month agoHah I just recently was doing some soul searching for a game dev environment to get started with. I did a wee bit of 2D game dev in college 15 years ago, and wanted to scratch the same itch.
At this point, I demand a good IDE experience: as much intellisense as possible, great debugger, hot reloading.
Anyway, C# and MonoGame was what won at the end of the day, at least to just get the ball rolling. Rider is a great IDE, and MonoGame… at least has great getting started documentation to get me going again. Once I knock out a few cutesy games I’ll probably go build my own thing on top of SDL3, so that I’m not held back by MonoGame. Also the MonoGame content builder is just completely broken on Mac, so on the side I am building my own Rider plugin to bring actually good intellisense to the mgcb file, so that I don’t need the broken editor gui (all it does is manage the mgcb file anyway, arguably should have just been an IDE plugin the whole time)
I tried Dragonruby, really wanted to like it, but the development experience is just… not there. It live reloads, but seems to offer no IDE tooling whatsoever. They talk a lot about emacs, maybe you’re supposed to use it with emacs, which I just have zero interest in doing. You’re also not using MRI, or the full Ruby language, so a lot of tooling for “normal Ruby” may not work. C# is just C# with MonoGame, I can use all the tools, import all the nuget packages (if you really want to), etc.
I felt like going with a C based project would lock me out of having hot reloading, but that might not be true, please let me know if I am wrong!. I know of a C++ hot reloading thing specifically made for game dev, it’s in my notes somewhere, just not sure if it’s suitable for use (you sure do have to sift through lots of abandoned experimental stuff in this world)
- nodramallama 1 month agofwiw you might want to check out Odin-lang!
- corytheboyd 1 month agoAh yeah Í keep seeing it come up, I will take a look! This weekend was gonna toy with C++ to rebuild what I got done with MonoGame, but a next mini experiment can perhaps be Odin!
- corytheboyd 1 month ago
- nodramallama 1 month ago
- 90s_dev 1 month agoCute looks like a modern version of SDL or maybge SFML[1]. Anyone have any experience with it?
- pusewicz 1 month agoCute uses SDL3 under the hood, but provides an entire framework for game development, ready to use.
It loads Aseprite files automatically, manages animations, collisions, networking, what have you.
- raincole 1 month agoSince it uses SDL3, it should be able to do more than 2D, right? Last time I checked SDL3 wraps around a lot of GPU API that you can pretty much do whatever you can do with WebGPU.
- pusewicz 1 month agoYeah. It's just tailored for 2D gamedev. Cute uses the new SDL3 GPU API internally. Shaders and sprite batching, automatic sprite atlases etc. that Cute provides is just very specific to 2D games.
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- 90s_dev 1 month agoAh thanks Piotr, also Cute looks very useful, great job.
- pusewicz 1 month agoIt's not mine, I'm just a fan myself!
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- raincole 1 month ago
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- titouanch 1 month agoMaybe a dumb question, but can this be used to make games for other platforms than MacOS & iOS?
My (limited) understanding is that Swift is mostly used to make iOS apps.
- DavidPiper 1 month agoYep, I've been meaning to get a Swift + SDL project working.
The language itself is not limited to Apple platforms, and there are compilers for many others, but until now all the surrounding tooling (IDEs, Swift Package Manager, build toolchain(s), C/C++ interop) has been less than ideal for all non-Apple platforms. Arguably less than ideal on Apple platforms too in some cases ;)
There is still a big difference between "I have Xcode" and "I have VSCode + a large manual toolchain", but the gap is closing. CMake can also generate Xcode projects which is a nice touch when bringing cross-platform code back to Apple platforms.
- pusewicz 1 month agohttps://github.com/KevinVitale/SwiftSDL is a good starting point and already supports macOS and Linux out of the box.
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- zombot 1 month agohttps://www.swift.org/install
macOS, Linux, Windoze
- JKCalhoun 1 month agoThanks. It looks like CMake + SDL2(3) would add some gaming platforms like Nintendo, etc. (if that's important to you).
- JKCalhoun 1 month ago
- DavidPiper 1 month ago
- taylorallred 1 month agoHow does Cute compare to Raylib?
- dismalaf 1 month agoOn first glance, Cute is 2D only. Raylib is 3D but can do 2D. Cute is written in C++, Raylib in C.
- dismalaf 1 month ago
- krzat 1 month agoFor Swift, it would be more natural to use SPM instead of CMake.
- pusewicz 1 month agoIt would be, but also more cumbersome to get it up and running. Not impossible, though!
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- shortrounddev2 1 month agoHow have we still not come up with anything better than cmake?
- pusewicz 1 month agoThere are better tools. It's a matter of adoption.
- shortrounddev2 1 month agoI mean with IDE support
- shortrounddev2 1 month ago
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- kookamamie 1 month ago> For many games variable timestep is a good choice.
It really isn't.
- pusewicz 1 month agoYou can use fixed time step. Choice is yours.
- OnionBlender 1 month agoWhat's funny is that searching for "cute framework fixed timestep" in Google points to this Hacker News thread as the first result. What I would have wanted to find is this page:
https://randygaul.github.io/cute_framework/#/topics/game_loo...
- kookamamie 1 month agoVery sorry about that :D
- pusewicz 1 month agoLOL
- kookamamie 1 month ago
- OnionBlender 1 month ago
- all2 1 month agoIf you divorce the game's time-step from your math it isn't too much of an issue. You just need to keep track of the time-delta so you have it for your calculations.
- kookamamie 1 month agoGaffer has summarized most of this quite well years ago. E.g. https://gafferongames.com/post/fix_your_timestep/
- kookamamie 1 month ago
- 90s_dev 1 month agoCare to elaborate?
- pusewicz 1 month agohttps://randygaul.github.io/cute_framework/#/topics/game_loo...
You can request a fixed timestep, and your own loop callback will be called at fixed intervals, which allows you to completely ignore delta time.
- kookamamie 1 month agoAssuming the timestep refers to the parts of code dealing with game logic updates, such as physics or motion, variable-sized steps tend to cause nasty issues. Collision detection is an example, where variability is undesired.
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- pusewicz 1 month ago
- Kon-Peki 1 month ago> And voilà!
Come on, if you're going to spell "voilà" correctly, you might as well use it correctly too. "Et voilà!", not "And voilà!" :)
- pusewicz 1 month agoFINE
- pusewicz 1 month ago