Characterizing my first attempt at copper-only passives

32 points by tverbeure 4 weeks ago | 9 comments
  • superkuh 3 weeks ago
    When I first started doing microstrip RF distributed elements like UHF notch filters I was really confused by the results I was getting from my $400 pocketVNA. The microstrip filters worked when I had them in my physical RF pipeline but the S11 I was measuring was crazy. Eventually I gave up.

    One day while complaining on IRC someone suggested I let the VNA warm up before doing the calibration routine. I'd just been doing it right after turning it on because naturally, that's what was required first. I waited 15 minutes and then did the calibration. Suddenly the S11 plots actually matched the behavior and I could compare directly against the sonnet fullwave sim design instead of just "it seems to work".

    • dlcarrier 4 weeks ago
      With only several dollars worth of high-precision PCB specifications, you two can save multiple fractions of a cent worth of passive components!

      There are applications where this can be useful, though. Especially when PCB production quirks can be more repeatable than component soldering, which can be affected by ambient temperature, humidity, solder paste age, and a bunch of other factors.

      • gus_massa 3 weeks ago
        People do that inside silicon chips. I searched in some of the old posts by kens:

        Resistors: https://www.righto.com/2022/01/silicon-die-teardown-look-ins...

        Capacitors: https://www.righto.com/2018/06/silicon-die-analysis-op-amp-w...

        • variaga 3 weeks ago
          It gets done inside silicon chips because the (relative) costs of going off the chip and back on again are huge, and the parasitic inductance of the on/off chip path can make a an off-chip capacitor effectively useless.
        • Taniwha 3 weeks ago
          I think that if you care about a 2pF cap then you need to understand the parasitics in your board anyway
          • kurthr 3 weeks ago
            You can also build much lower inductance bypass caps with your internal power planes than you can get out of any component!
            • contingencies 3 weeks ago
              As a relative newcomer to radio design, please expand on this with layout graphics and methodology.