O3 Turns Pro
164 points by jsnider3 3 weeks ago | 132 comments- vessenes 3 weeks agoI'm using Pro. It's definitely a "hand it to the team and have them schedule a meeting to get back to me" speed tool. But, it "feels" better to me than o3, and significantly better than gemini/claude for that use case. I do trust it more on confabulations; my current trust hierarchy would be o3-pro -> o3 -> gemini -> claude opus -> (a bunch of stuff) -> 4o.
That said, I'd like this quality with a relatively quick tool using model; I'm not sure what else I'd want to call it "AGI" at that point.
- qwertox 3 weeks agoWhat are you using it for? It's not like that wouldn't matter.
With coding using anything is always a hit and miss, so I prefer to have faster models where I can throw away the chat if it turns into an idiot.
Would I wait 15 minutes for a transcription from Python to Rust if I don't know what the result will be? No.
Would I wait 15 minutes if I'd be a mathematician working on some kind of proof? Probably yes.
- AaronAPU 3 weeks agoI feed most of my questions/code to 4o, Gemini, o3-pro (in that order). By the time I’ve read through 4o, Gemini is ready. Etc.
It’s the progressive jpg download of 2025. You can short circuit after the first model which gives a good enough response.
- phillco 2 weeks agoDo you have any specific tooling for querying all three at once beyond just copy paste?
- plufz 2 weeks agoHow do you reason about the energy consumption/climate impact of feeding the same question to three models? Im not saying there is a clear answer here, would just be interesting to hear your thinking.
- phillco 2 weeks ago
- AaronAPU 3 weeks ago
- Y_Y 3 weeks agoAre you setting the "reasoning effort"? I find going from the default (medium) to high makes a big difference on coding tasks for openai reasoning models.
- pas 2 weeks agowhat/how does that work internally?
- Y_Y 2 weeks agohttps://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/ai-services/openai/h...
It's just the number of tokens it's willing to expend in the little internal dialogue before it has to spit out an answer.
- Y_Y 2 weeks ago
- pas 2 weeks ago
- lelanthran 2 weeks ago> That said, I'd like this quality with a relatively quick tool using model; I'm not sure what else I'd want to call it "AGI" at that point.
Am I the only one who is looking around at the AI industry and seeing only developers and artists being replaced with AI?
It's hardly AGI when it can't replace a salesperson, or an accountant, or a lawyer, or a teacher, or ...
All the headlines I am seeing are software development related. In this post, you yourself are using s/ware development as a measure for how good/bad AI is.
- achierius 2 weeks agoIdeally it should be able to do things outside of the realm of programming with strong reliability (at least as strong as human experts), as well as be able to pick up new skills and learn new facts dynamically.
- JamesBarney 2 weeks agoI haven't tested o3-pro yet enough to have a good hierarchy of confabulation.
I use AI a lot to double check my code via a code review what I've found is
Gemini - really good at contextual reasoning. Doesn't confabulate bugs that don't exist. Is really good at finding issues related to large context. (this method calls this method, and it does it with a value that could be this)
Sonnet/Opus - Seems to be the more creative. More likely to confabulate bugs that don't exist, but also most likely to catch a bug o3 and gemini missed.
o3 - Somewhere in the middle
- bananapub 3 weeks agowhat do you trust it to do?
the only example uses I see written about on HN appear to basically be Substack users asking o3 marketing questions and then writing substack posts about it, and a smattering of vague posts about debugging.
- vessenes 3 weeks agoLong form research reporting.
Example: Pull together a list of the top 20 startups funded in Germany this year, valuation, founder and business model. Estimate which is most likely to want to take on private equity investment from a lower mid market US PE fund, as well as which would be most suitable taking into consideration their business model, founders and market; write an approach letter in english and in german aimed at getting a meeting. make sure that it's culturally appropriate for german startup founders.
I have no idea what the output of this query would be by the way, but it's one I would trust to get right on
* the list of startups
* the letter and its cultural sensitivity
* broad strokes of what the startup is doing
Stuff I'd "trust but verify" would be
* Names of the founders
* Size of company and target market
Stuff I'd double check / keep my own counsel on
* Suitability and why (note that o3 pro is def. better at this than o3 which is already not bad; it has some genuinely novel and good ideas, but often misses things.)
- lukeschlather 2 weeks agoI don't think it's necessarily a question of trust, it's a question of cost/benefit, and I can apply this just as much to myself. I have been using a lot more SQL queries lately when I use ChatGPT, because I trust it pretty well to write gnarly queries with subqueries and CASE statements. Things that I wouldn't write myself because it's not worth the time to make the query correct, but ChatGPT can do it in seconds.
I had an example where o1 really wowed me - something I don't want to post on the internet because I want to use it to test models. In that case I was thinking through a problem where I had made an incorrect mathematical assumption. I explained my reasoning to o1 and it was able to point out the flaw in my reasoning, along with some examples mathematical expressions that disproved my thinking.
The funny thing in this case it basically functioned as a rubber duck. When it started producing a response I had deduced essentially what it told me - but it was pretty nice to see the detailed reasoning with examples that might've taken me a few more minutes to work out. And I never would've produced a little report explaining in detail why I was wrong, I would've just adjusted my thinking. Having the report was helpful.
- lovich 3 weeks agoI’ve been using it in my job search by handing it stuff like the hn whose hiring threads, giving it a list of criteria i care about, and have it scour those posts for matching jobs, and then chase down all the companies posting and see if they have anything on their corporate site matching my descriptions.
Then I have it take those matches and try and chase down the hiring manager based on public info.
I did it at first just to see if it was possible, but I am getting direct emails that have been accurate a handful of times and I never would have gotten that on my own
- bananapub 2 weeks agoThis is a good data point - I guess another dimension is incompleteness-tolerance. An LLM is absolutely going to miss some but for your case that doesn’t matter very much.
Thank you!
- bananapub 2 weeks ago
- vessenes 3 weeks ago
- IamLoading 2 weeks agoThe time o3 pro takes is so annoying. I still need some time to get used to that.
- agambrahma 2 weeks agoHmm, Gemini + O3 > Claude-Opus for ... what kinds of things?
- qwertox 3 weeks ago
- jes5199 2 weeks agoI haven’t tried pro yet but just yesterday I asked O3 to review a file and I saw a message in the chain-of-thought like “it’s going to be hard to give a comprehensive answer within the time limit” so now I’m tempted
- A_D_E_P_T 3 weeks agoChat just isn't the best format for something that takes 15-20 minutes (on average) to come up with a response. Email would unironically be better. Send a very long and detailed prompt, like a business email, and get a response back whenever it's ready. Then you can refine the prompt in another email, etc.
But I should note that o3-pro has been getting faster for me lately. At first every damn thing, however simple, took 15+ minutes. Today I got a few answers back within 5 minutes.
- throw14082020 2 weeks agoDon't you chat with someone over various apps, but then get a notification minutes, hours, or days later? Email is just an instance of chat?
So I disagree. Are you building an AI agent accessible over email?
- A_D_E_P_T 2 weeks agoHere's how I view it:
Chat is more of a "conversational" medium, where you dash off short and informal messages and expect a very quick if not immediate response.
Email is more of a "correspondence" medium, where you write longer and sometimes much more formal messages, and expect a response within ~24 hours.
The latter would be the better way to use ultra-compute-heavy/long-delay models like o3-Pro, because you don't expect the flow of a conversation, and it would nudge you to be much more detailed in your prompt. In fact, if it had a larger context window, an email-format o3-Pro would be perfect for lawyers and for certain types of data analysis.
I'm not building anything, but if you'd like to, lmk.
- A_D_E_P_T 2 weeks ago
- throw14082020 2 weeks ago
- snissn 3 weeks agoI’ve found throw the problem at 3 o3 pros and have another one evaluate and synthesize works really well
- ActionHank 2 weeks agoSo like, a whole forest of trees per query is what we're saying here?
- LeafItAlone 2 weeks agoIdeally just a few split atoms
- LeafItAlone 2 weeks ago
- kridsdale1 2 weeks agoNow You’re Playing With Agent Power!
- ActionHank 2 weeks ago
- b0a04gl 2 weeks agowhen o3 pricing dropped 80%, most wrote the entire model family off as a downgrade (including me). but usage patterns flipped people finally ran real tasks through it. it's one of the few that holds state across fragmented prompts without collapsing context. used it to audit a messy auth flow spread over 6 services. didn't shortcut, didn't hallucinate edge cases. slow, but deliberate. in kahneman terms, it runs system 2 by default. many still benchmark on token speed, missing what actually matters
- lubujackson 2 weeks agoI have been using o3 almost exclusively in Cursor now for my "vibe coding" project. I was able to get to a point with faster models before hitting a thrashing problem of forgetting about structure/not updating types/no using right types/ignoring existing functions, etc. Even when providing specific context. o3 rarely hits those issues and can happily implement a fully feature without breaking anything that touches multiple files. Speed is definitely an issue, but much less hassle on the back side.
- viraptor 2 weeks agoDid you do anything interesting to start using it? I checked o3 when the price dropped and it kept falling basic tasks. ¾ of command runs and edits failed. Claude and Gemini both worked just fine with the same prompts.
- lubujackson 2 weeks agoYes, my codebase has gotten bigger and I hit a rut where every change was blowing up one way or another. The fix was to create a few Cursor rules files. You can have Cursor make this - one to define the overall structure of the project, one to define where dataclass types are (I have a Python codebase), a few different ones for generic patterns for what needs updating when adding new code paths. In Cursor you can also select when Cursor consults these files, every time or when doing specified changes.
This has made the biggest difference with o3. If I want to "add a new module" I first explain the goal and have it create a plan (no code). Then I have it save that plan to a TODO.txt. And I just have it start implementing it. I spot check the code along the way to make sure its going down the correct path. I run a few "continue implementing" until it has created tests that pass. Then I test things myself. If all that checks out, I actually look at the code. Most of the time now everything is functioning and I have just a few minor tweaks.
Because I'm working on a new project I let some things stay a little wrong because I know I can focus on an across-the-board solution to it later, with a single prompt. The most important thing is to have everything well-typed and well-structured. LLMs thrive in structure.
- lubujackson 2 weeks ago
- viraptor 2 weeks ago
- lysecret 2 weeks agoThis feels very Ai generated.
- mettamage 2 weeks agoSome people write in similar ways yea. I've also been accused of writing as an AI.
But we're still human mate.
Stop discriminating or actually solve the problem. I've had enough of this attitude.
- cshimmin 2 weeks agoalmost as though the AIs were trained on a corpus of text written by... humans
- cshimmin 2 weeks ago
- SkyPuncher 2 weeks agoFeels like a lot of software engineers I work with (including myself at times).
Short, concise statements that don't necessarily string together sequentially. However, they still aggregate to a holistic, meaningful thought. No that much different that how a lot of code is written.
- motoxpro 2 weeks agoI would say the opposite. Unless the person has a lot of custom instructions going on. Getting sentences like "but usage patterns flipped people finally ran real tasks through it." seem like it would take some amount of work.
- gala8y 2 weeks agoActually, it does not.
- WXLCKNO 2 weeks agoReally doesn't to be fair and I feel like I spot so many AI comments every day.
- b0a04gl 2 weeks agoyes im agi by the way
- kridsdale1 2 weeks agohi agi we’ve been trying so hard to find you
- kridsdale1 2 weeks ago
- mettamage 2 weeks ago
- lubujackson 2 weeks ago
- swyx 3 weeks ago> Arena has gotten quite silly if treated as a comprehensive measure (as in Gemini 2.5 Flash is rated above o3)
> The problem with o3-pro is that it is slow.
well maybe Arena is not that silly then. poorly argued/organized article.
- highfrequency 2 weeks agoWhat is the difference between o3 pro and deep research? From a glance, both seem to take 10-15mins to respond and use o3 as the base model.
- starik36 3 weeks agoI've tried o3 Pro for my use cases (parsing emails in the legal profession) and didn't have better results than the non pro.
In fact, o1-preview has given me more consistently correct results than any other model. But it's being sunset next month so I have to move to o3.
- AaronAPU 3 weeks agoIMO 4o is much better at people-parsing. The reasoning models o1-pro / o3-pro are really good at writing code and solving algorithmic problems.
- starik36 2 weeks agoI've tried it with various models. And 4o is really good given that it returns data at least 10 times faster. But if you ask it to fill out a Json document, o3 (or other reasoning models) is still better, more correct and predictable. Or at least, better enough to justify waiting a minute for the API call to return vs 3-5 seconds.
- resters 2 weeks agowhat is people parsing?
- starik36 2 weeks agoThe email from the lawyer might mention lots of names. Who are the plaintiffs, who are defendants, their attorneys, assistants, or insurance adjusters. The model parses out who is who and connects names to titles to email addresses.
- AaronAPU 2 weeks agoThings like inferring the meaning of “people parsing” when it isn’t explicitly defined but can be implied by context.
Not strict rational A+B=C, nuance.
- starik36 2 weeks ago
- starik36 2 weeks ago
- ActionHank 2 weeks agoOut of interest, how widespread would you say this usage is amongst your peers in the legal profession?
- starik36 2 weeks agoChatGPT is pretty widespread. The only obstacle in the past was the fear that confidential documents might be used for training. OpenAI fixed that with a business account type that guarantees no training.
As far as usage of API for business processes (like document processing) - I can't say.
- AtlasBarfed 2 weeks agoGuarantees ...... How?
You should assume Facebook level morality.
- AtlasBarfed 2 weeks ago
- starik36 2 weeks ago
- AaronAPU 3 weeks ago
- franze 3 weeks agoI use Claude Code a lot. A lot lot. I make it do Atomic Git commits for me. When it gets stuck and instead of just saying so starts to refactor half of the codebase, I jump back to commit where the issue first appeared and get a summary of the involved files. Those in full text (not files) into o3 pro. And you can be sure it finds the issue or gives a direction where the issue does not appear. Would love o3-pro as am MCP so whenever Claude Code goes on a "lets refactor everything" coding spree it just asks o3 pro.
- BeetleB 2 weeks agoSounds like you're doing the equivalent of Aider's architect mode (use one model for the reasoning, and another for the code changes).
I would encourage you to try it. It's generally (much) cheaper doing stuff in Aider, but if you're paying a monthly subscription and using it a lot, Claude Code may be cheaper...
- jgalt212 3 weeks ago> When it gets stuck and instead of just saying so starts to refactor half of the codebase
That's pretty scary.
- franze 2 weeks agoAtomic Commits.
I put this into Claude.md and need to remind it every other hour. But yeah, you need to jump back every few hours or so.
- nevertoolate 2 weeks agoCan you give an example what claude works on autonomously for hours? I only use the chat, maybe I’m just not prompting well, but I throw away almost everything claude writes and solve it in significantly less lines of code using the proper abstractions.
- nevertoolate 2 weeks ago
- franze 2 weeks ago
- BeetleB 2 weeks ago
- rotcev 2 weeks agoI use O3-pro not as a coding model, but as a strategic assistant. For me, the long delay between responses makes the model unsuitable for coding workflows, however, it is actually a feature when it comes to getting answers to hard questions impacting my (or my friend's/family's) day to day life.
- metalrain 2 weeks ago"'take your profits’ in quality versus quantity is up to you."
As mainly AI invester not AI user, I think profitability is great importance. It has been race to top so far, soon we see race to the bottom.
- resters 2 weeks agoRight! We are in a sense lucky to be getting access to actual state-of-the-art models. Soon the actual model may be kept internal and the customers will get "good enough for solid ROI" distilled versions that can be hosted profitably.
- resters 2 weeks ago
- boole1854 2 weeks agoHere are my own anecdotes from using o3-pro recently.
My primary use cases where I am willing to wait 10-20 minutes for an answer from the "big slow" model (o3-pro) is code reviews of large amounts of code. I have been comparing results on this task from the three models above.
Oddly, I see many cases where each model will surface issues that the other two miss. In previous months when running this test (e.g., Claude 3.7 Sonnet vs o1-pro vs earlier Gemini), that wasn't the case. Back then, the best model (o1-pro) would almost always find all the issues that the other models found. But now it seems they each have their own blindspots (although they are also all better than the previous generation of models).
With that said, I am seeing Claude Opus 4 (w/extended thinking) be distinctly worse at missing problems which o3-pro and Gemini find. It seems fairly consistent that Opus will be the worst out of the three (despite sometimes noticing things the others do not).
Whether o3-pro or Gemini 2.5 Pro is better is less clear. o3-pro will report more issues, but it also has a tendency to confabulate problems. My workflow involves providing the model with a diff of all changes, plus the full contents of the files that were changed. o3-pro seems to have a tendency to imagine and report problems in the files that were not provided to it. It also has an odd new failure mode, which is very consistent: it gets confused by the fact that I provide both the diff and the full file contents. It "sees" parts of the same code twice and will usually report that there has accidentally been some code duplicated. Base o3 does this as well. None of the other models get confused in that way, and I also do not remember seeing that failure mode with o1-pro.
Nevertheless, it seems o3-pro can sometimes find real issues that Gemini 2.5 Pro and Opus 4 cannot more often than vice versa.
Back in the o1-pro days, it was fairly straightforward in my testing for this use case that o1-pro was simply better across the board. Now with o3-pro compared particularly with Gemini 2.5 Pro, it's no longer clear whether the bonus of occasionally finding a problem that Gemini misses is worth the trouble of (1) waiting way longer for an answer and (2) sifting through more false positives.
My other common code-related use case is actually writing code. Here, Claude Code (with Opus 4) is amazing and has replaced all my other use of coding models, including Cursor. I now code almost exclusively by peer programming with Claude Code, allowing it to be the code writer while I oversee and review. The OpenAI competitor to Claude Code, called Codex CLI, feels distinctly undercooked. It has a recurring problem where it seems to "forget" that it is an agent that needs to go ahead and edit files, and it will instead start to offer me suggestions about how I can make the change. It also hallucinates running commands on a regular basis (e.g., I tell it to commit the changes we've done, and outputs that it has done so, but it has not.)
So where will I spend my $200 monthly model budget? Answer: Claude, for nearly unlimited use of Claude Code. For highly complex tasks, I switch to Gemini 2.5 Pro, which is still free in AI Studio. If I can wait 10+ minutes, I may hand it to o3-pro. But once my ChatGPT Pro subscription expires this month, I may either stop using o3-pro altogether, or I may occasionally use it as a second opinion by paying on-demand through the API.
- JamesBarney 2 weeks ago> With that said, I am seeing Claude Opus 4 (w/extended thinking) be distinctly worse at missing problems which o3-pro and Gemini find. It seems fairly consistent that Opus will be the worst out of the three (despite sometimes noticing things the others do not).
I've found the same thing. That claude is more likely miss a bug than o3 or gemini but more likely to catch something o3 and gemini missed. If I had to pick one model I'd pick o3 or gemini, but if I had to pick a second model I'd pick opus.
It's also seems to have a much higher false positive rate where as gemini seems to have the lowest false positive rate.
Basically o3 and gemini are better, but also more correlated which gives opus a lot of value.
- throwdbaaway 2 weeks agoFor the code review use case, maybe can try to create the diff with something like `git diff -U99999`, and then send only the diff.
- JamesBarney 2 weeks ago
- thebiggening 2 weeks agoI feel really sorry for anyone using o3. It is really, really bad...
- thebiggening 2 weeks agonot being ironic I would rather commit seppuku than use o3
- thebiggening 2 weeks ago
- jacobsenscott 3 weeks ago[flagged]
- crubier 3 weeks agoWriting a Pull Request can take me 8 hours. Reviewing a Pull Request of the same size takes me 30min. Here you go.
- Y_Y 2 weeks agoP ⊆ NP
- Nition 2 weeks agoYeah this is the big benefit of current LLM AI even with the mistakes and hallucinations IMO. All the things that are hard to answer but easy to verify.
Not just programming. e.g. You have a complex medical problem. Hard to ask Google. Ask AI, it gives you some possible answers, then you can search up those. Or you want to identify a plant. AI looks at your photo and tells you what it is, then search that name to verify.
There were existing ways to do some of these things, but this covers all of them.
- Nition 2 weeks ago
- Y_Y 2 weeks ago
- infecto 3 weeks agoA bit of a meta topic but the one thing that probably grinds my nerves more than it should is this style of comments that are not extremely additive and simply posit some idea without experience or backing statements. Happens a lot in these LLM discussions. Perhaps there is genuine curiosity but it seems to always read as an objection to the idea of these tools coming from someone who has not used them.
- ezst 2 weeks agoTo me it's a useful reminder that those tools are nothing but text generating algorithms, optimised to produce compelling answers, irrespective whether they are truthful or not, having no concept of what's factual, and completely missing the ability to give up when asked for impossible or unreasonable answers outside of their training data.
In essence, they are only adequate in niche situations (like creative writing, marketing, placeholder during iterative design, …) where there's no such social contract and assumption that people operate in good faith and do their best diligence not to deceive others.
Pretending otherwise, not pushing back when LLMs are clearly used outside of those contexts, or dressing them into what they are not (thinking machines, search engines, knowledge archives, …) is doing the work of useful idiots defending tech oligarchs and data thieves against their own interests.
And yeah, I get it, naysayers are annoying. Doesn't mean they are wrong or their voices shouldn't be heard at a time where the legality and ethics of all this are being debated.
- Brendinooo 2 weeks ago>In essence, they are only adequate in niche situations (like creative writing, marketing, placeholder during iterative design, …)
Placeholders, sure. But I'm surprised you don't know about the utility it has in a programming context.
I was kicking the tires on Claude for a personal thing the other day - "given this data and this output I want, write a utility function" - and it quickly gave me something that gave me exactly what I needed on the first try.
I also had an extended session recently where it really helped me with the "naming is hard" problem. Naming is hard and it's nice to have a rubber duck that has a certain understanding of your code and is able to throw a bunch of ideas at you quickly.
I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.
And I'll emphasize your "placeholder" point: sometimes it's not even about the solution it gives, it's about the process of articulating the problem and getting something out there. A lot of times the first iteration of anything is the hardest to complete, and it can really cut down the time to achieve that.
- infecto 2 weeks agoI tried reading your comment but it was a little difficult, there was a lot of hints of ChatGPT fluff. Ultimately saying a LLM is only useful in niche situations is a tell of the boat passing you by. I am not advocating that they solve all problems but they are definitely more useful than simply “niche” workflows.
- Brendinooo 2 weeks ago
- nevertoolate 2 weeks agoOn the other hand I only see downvotes and _never_ an answer on how you are using llms. The anecdotal 8hours to 30 minutes PR sounds great, but in my experience it just won’t happen. How can you set up llm to work autonomously for _hours_? If it is continuous “pair” work I just don’t see the 30 min work solving a beefy PR. In 8 hours coding with a well thought out plan / re-planning, testing one can finish quite interesting stuff. 30 minutes is basically nothing - and this is kinda what you get with an llm in my experience. How do you do it?
- infecto 2 weeks agoEither your head is in the sand or you have not been on HN much. Practically every week there are multiple articles that make the front page either for or against LLM tooling, in each of those people, including myself, will share anecdotes from their own experiences. And you will also get a number of folks like the person I responded too who post a negative or positive comment without any evidence or attempt to learn on their own before making a claim. You say you never see people talking about their experiences but there is usually nothing but experiences being posted in these comments every week. It’s an absurd claim.
Don’t misjudge me either, I am not suggesting there should not be critical comments but that if you make a critical comment you should at least have an idea what your talking about.
- infecto 2 weeks ago
- ezst 2 weeks ago
- huxley 3 weeks agoNot necessarily, you don’t need to know the answer, the fabulation might:
* give an error
* return the wrong result
* not be internally consistent with the rest of the content
* be logically impossible
* be factually impossible
* have basic errors
It is entirely possible (and quite common) to know something is wrong without knowing what a right answer is.
- ashdksnndck 3 weeks agoIf you’re referring to the first chart in OP, “comparative evaluations with human testers”, it’s measuring how often o3-pro gave a better answer than o3. It’s not reporting a 63% accuracy rate.
- wahnfrieden 3 weeks agoMany types of work are time-consuming to produce, and quick to verify.
- Sateeshm 3 weeks agoI am curious. What are a few examples?
- wahnfrieden 3 weeks agoMany code-writing tasks.
How long do your teams take to write vs review PRs? How long does it take to review a test case and run it vs write the implementation under test? Or to verify that a fix a regressed test now completes successfully? How long does it take you to do a "design review" of a rendered webpage vs to create a static webpage? How long does it take to evaluate a performance optimization vs write it?
- steveklabnik 3 weeks ago"my tests are failing, and I don't know why. can you investigate?"
- wahnfrieden 3 weeks ago
- arrowsmith 2 weeks agoUnless P=NP
- Sateeshm 3 weeks ago
- add-sub-mul-div 3 weeks agoThe majority of people just want to go home at 5 after putting in as little effort as possible. Their bosses just want to save money in the short term. The interests could not be more aligned and optimized.
- bananapub 3 weeks agoyou're being silly. there are definitely cases in life where "verifying an answer" is much less effort than "producing an answer" (public key cryptography is built on this!). an obvious example is "writing boring code". I can much more quickly review the code to a simple little custom web app than I can sit down and write it. that's great! as a bonus, no one dies if my little dashboard crashes on invalid input or whatever. another thing might be marketing copy - no one really cares if it's good or not and 500 "OK" words on a topic might take an hour to write but five minutes to read and correct the grammar of.
an example of things that are the opposite is "public policy development", which is why it's simply malicious that various corrupt oligarchs are pushing for it to be used for such things.
so, a simple model for you to understand why other people might find these tools useful for some things:
- low stakes - doesn't matter that much if the output isn't Top Quality, either because it's easy to fix or it just doesn't matter
- enormous gap in cost between generation and review - e.g. coding
- review systems exist and are used - I don't care very much if my coworkers use an LLM to write code or not, since all the code gets reviewed by someone else, and if the proposer of the change doesn't even bother to check it themselves then they pay the social cost for it
- imiric 2 weeks agoThe intentional disregard for software quality in your comment is honestly disturbing.
If your quality threshold is so low that you can tolerate crashes on invalid input, you will certainly cut corners when building software for others. I wouldn't want to use a piece of software you wrote, let alone have you on my team.
> I don't care very much if my coworkers use an LLM to write code or not, since all the code gets reviewed by someone else
Ah, yes, let's kick the can down the road.
> if the proposer of the change doesn't even bother to check it themselves then they pay the social cost for it
... The side effects of shoddy code are not redeemed by "paying a social cost". They negatively impact your users, and thus the bottom line of your company.
- bananapub 2 weeks ago> The intentional disregard for software quality in your comment is honestly disturbing.
why? my shitty sales dashboard at work doesn't control a rocket or a pacemaker. the crappy my-weird-org-mode-table-to-re-arranged-CSV convertor isn't either.
not all software is safety critical, and in any case, I'm the human who ran the code generator and then the code and I'm responsible for my dashboard crashing or my convertor deleting the photos of my cat.
should an LLM replace human code review? no. can I use an LLM for my own dumb projects? of course.
- bananapub 2 weeks ago
- imiric 2 weeks ago
- crubier 3 weeks ago
- iLoveOncall 3 weeks ago> My experience so far is that waiting a long time is annoying, sufficiently annoying that you often won’t want to wait.
My solution for this has been to use non-reasoning models, and so far in 90% of the situations I have received the exact same results from both.
- jasonjmcghee 3 weeks agoOn the complete other end of the spectrum, I found deep research (whether it's actually performing searches or not) to be a significant upgrade in quality. But you need to be cool with having to wait 15-30 minutes. It's certainly not for everything, but definitely worth trying.
It tends to output significantly longer and more detailed output. So when you want that kind of thing- works well. Especially if you need up to date stuff or want to find related sources.
- joshstrange 3 weeks agoDeep research is very cool, no doubt, but run it on a problem space you are familiar with and you will see the shortcomings.
Anytime I do my own “deep” research I like to then throw the same problem at OpenAI and see how well it fares. Often it misses things or gets things subtly wrong. The results look impressive so it’s easy to fool people and I’m not saying the results are useless, I’ve absolutely gotten value out of it, but I don’t love using it for anything I actually care about.
- bcrosby95 3 weeks agoI view the results more as a starting point than an end unto itself. For that I think it's pretty useful.
- bcrosby95 3 weeks ago
- pinoy420 3 weeks ago[dead]
- joshstrange 3 weeks ago
- jasonjmcghee 3 weeks ago