How China's Xiaomi Does In A Week What Apple Does In A Year: Update Devices

54 points by daniel_solano 11 years ago | 46 comments
  • JonFish85 11 years ago
    100,000 phones a week? Big deal. Just over 5 million a year. If we're comparing to Apple, Apple sold 125M last year [1].

    And 52 different version numbers. Support must be a nightmare, if it even exists outside of just "we'll give you next week's version".

    These must be pretty minor changes if they're happening every week. How many of them are being passed through rigorous QA? I'm curious how many of the batches are just tossed due to a small error?

    And man, would it suck to order a phone and then have it be obsolete within a couple of days of having it be delivered.

    [1] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57540705-37/apples-fiscal-...

    • rednukleus 11 years ago
      What kind of warped reality do you live in that only selling 5 million units a year while updating the hardware every week is "no big deal"?

      Regarding rapid obsolescence, this seems to work very well in Asian markets. They typically release a far greater number of devices, because there is a strong market for second hand phones, and many people like to keep switching to the latest thing.

      • JonFish85 11 years ago
        The 5 million by itself is fine. It's the comparison to Apple that seems out of whack to me. The article doesn't compare them to a startup, it compares them to one of the biggest companies in the world. If you do that, you invite criticism on the comparison, which is what I gave.
        • kkowalczyk 11 years ago
          Xiaomi is 3.5 years old, currently only sells in China and in Chinese market it has already overtaken Apple in market share.

          I think comparing them to Apple on the basis of sold phones in China is justified.

          Looking into my crystal ball, I further think that their strategy is so brilliant and their execution is so good that we're witnessing the rise of a new giant.

          Give it 5 years and they'll be in the same league as Apple and Samsung on a world-wide basis, not just in China.

        • r0h1n 11 years ago
          Seconding the rapid obsolescence point about Asian markets. The CEO of one of the leading mobile phone retail chains (440+ stores) in India (3rd largest global smartphone market after China and the US, might be second largest very soon) told me consumers are changing phones every 9 months on an average.

          This is the mass market he's referring to, not the folks who're spending $600-800 on the latest iPhones or Galaxy Notes.

          Still, makes me feel positively ancient given I used my Nexus One for nearly 3 years before moving to the Nexus 4.

          • gibwell 11 years ago
            Do you seriously think that Xiaomi makes the kind of changes that Apple makes to their products annually on a weekly basis?
            • lotyrin 11 years ago
              Do you seriously think they would have to before it's worth being impressed over?
          • igravious 11 years ago
            A number of people here all seem to be making the same mistaken assumption.

            Just because they refresh their line of phones in batches of 100,000 on a weekly basis does _not_ imply that each change takes only a week to implement. Changes probably land when they're done, like the Linux kernel, no?

            More competition is a good thing. Different ways of doing things is good - let's wish them well.

            • jussij 11 years ago
              > 100,000 phones a week? Big deal. Just over 5 million a year.

              Considering the fact they managed to created that market in three years, I'd say it's quite a big deal.

              • bluefinity 11 years ago
                Xiaomi are China-only at the moment, whereas Apple are global. In the article, they say Xiaomi have a higher market share within China than Apple, so I would say they're doing very well indeed, especially considering that the company was only founded in 2010. That's the same year that the iPhone 4 was released.
                • zwieback 11 years ago
                  I'm also wondering how you get regulatory approval. It doesn't take a lot of change to trigger a recertification with the FCC.
                • scott_karana 11 years ago
                  I used their Android derivative, MIUI, and found it to be very pretty, and featureful, but very unpolished. Seemingly unchanged functionality from the regular Android OS would not function correctly, in addition to some of their added features, and I eventually stopped using MIUI because of the constant minor bugs nipping at my heels.

                  I hope their hardware iteration doesn't end up the same way.

                  • zwieback 11 years ago
                    These engineers must be from a different species - my experience with HW is that it's very hard to change anything in a week, especially when you're building 100000. Then again, they have everything under one roof so they can probably just walk over to the PCB designer and then walk some more to the guy setting up the manufacturing equipment, who has reels of every known component in stock.

                    I'm curious what they change but web searches just return the same three sound bites.

                    • bluedino 11 years ago
                      Forbes has been hit and miss lately. For every good article they do about tech, they do some short, sensationalist 'China is taking over' piece like this.
                      • AJ007 11 years ago
                        Comments from actual users of these phones would be far more informative. Karma to scott_karana for mentioning his experience with their version of Android.
                        • smith7018 11 years ago
                          MIUI is actually a fairly well-known (and used) Android variant. Fun fact: it was supposedly based on iOS' looks but branched off into their own direction after ICS. Since then, iOS 7 was (comically, IMO) compared to MIUI and people believed Apple was inspired by it. It was even sold on a phone that was very iPhone-esque: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/08/xiaomi...
                        • gohrt 11 years ago
                          Link to a good article in Forbes?
                        • schnarfnark 11 years ago

                            I'm curious what they change but web searches just return the same three sound bites.
                          
                          Agreed. The article didn't exactly go into how they go about this.

                          On a different note, would this cause buyers to be less happy, knowing that there will be a better product in a week? Along the same lines as The Paradox of Choice[1]

                          [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More...

                          • zwieback 11 years ago
                            I think so, Apple has been successful with slow release cylces and making their stuff desirable. For lower cost consumer stuff it probably doesn't matter but these Chinese phones supposedly cost $300+ so I could see holding off a purchase to wait for improvements. Then again, I've had a Tracfone with a buggy LCD for years so I'm always waiting anyway.
                          • gbog 11 years ago
                            One part of the answer is that they work in evenings and weekends, have I heard from former colleagues who now work at xiaomi.
                            • jonmrodriguez 11 years ago
                              Like you said, it's all about having everything under one roof.

                              If you fab the PCBs yourself and pick and place the components yourself, you could make an electronics change in one day as long as you get the design right the first time and you had ordered the components in advance.

                              Changing the case shape would be harder to do fast, but could still happen in just 2-3 weeks if you have your tool-making and injection molding both in-house.

                              The reason anything takes longer for most companies is due to outsourcing, with all of its communications delays and shipping delays.

                            • sologoub 11 years ago
                              Maybe consumption patterns are extremely different in that market, but it seems that continuously changing hardware of a phone is not really that consumer friendly.

                              My current Android phone (Galaxy Nexus) is almost two years old and my current iPhone is a 4S (running iOS 7). I will soon be upgrading both, but I can't really see myself changing devices more of then than that. It's a convenience and cost issue. Even if you make the data transition seamless and remove the cost barrier, you are still left with limit of how often people will want to change their routine.

                              Needless to say, the comparisons like this are meaningless, because Apple is much more than a fancy set of hardware. iOS 7 update made my iPhone 4S camera feel like a brand new piece of hardware, when all I did was update the software...

                              • kefka 11 years ago
                                Im not surprised.

                                I've found that Chinese phones are very good quality and exceptionally great price. Not only phones, but I've also found that Android tablets are priced literally at 'throw away' prices.

                                For example, I just priced a 1.2GHz quad core android tablet running Android 4.2, 512MB ram, 4GB storage, with SIM slot, for $64. 1

                                I also bought a phone from China. It's a quad 1.4 GHz, 1G ram, 16G storage, 2 sim slots.. It's crazy fast, the size of a Galaxy Mega, and was $200. So yes, if you do choose to buy from China, you cut out the likes of the Wal-Marts and Best Buys. Instead, you can buy directly from the manufacturer and pay 1/2 what you would normally pay. And with some of these prices, they are approaching technology that I don't hurt much if I lose.

                                Now, please be aware, if you buy a Clone phone from China, you'll likely get ripped off. They are made intentionally to defraud and deceive. They do that to the poor saps whom buy them, as well as the people whom they pawn them to. And their components are usually pretty bad. If you stick with the obvious Chinese phones, you'll be much safer in the long run. Those are bought by the Chinese, whom see cheap as a bad thing. (Of course, the Chinese swoon after Samsungs and iPhones anyways...)

                                1 : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cheap-RK76-7-TFT-Touch-Screen... Unsure if reputable dealer, low sales numbers. Beware. Find at least 1000 sales.

                                • heifetz 11 years ago
                                  Here's an experiment. Take all the forum members on macrumors and crowd source a new phone by taking all of their ideas. See what kind of mutant non-functioning phone results from a democratic process. One of the reason why Apple and Google's phones and OSs are successful is because there are visionaries (Ives, Jobs, Rubin) at the top coming up with new ideas, instead of taking a poll and purely going with consumer feedback.
                                  • kkowalczyk 11 years ago
                                    That's not what Xiaomi does.

                                    They do have designers and program managers whose job is to decide which submitted ideas should be implemented and which should be discarded (and I'm sure a majority is discarded).

                                    In fact, listening to your users (as compared to just doing things you think are good) is the basic idea of Lean Startup and other agile methodologies.

                                    You're not supposed to put users in a driver's seat but you are supposed to listen to their feedback.

                                    Apple's weakness is that they don't listen to users (or at least I don't know of a channel where my feedback would be likely to catch Apple's PM attention). I understand the challenge of trying to listen to users at Apple's scale and they're extraordinarily successful regardless, but it doesn't mean that you can't get meaningful feedback and meaningful ideas from your user base. Xiaomi is a proof that it's possible.

                                    • toomuchtodo 11 years ago
                                      Benevolent Dictator > Design By Committe
                                      • gbog 11 years ago
                                        This is a false truth a see too often. Many products, human creations, are the result of the accretion of many contributors over time. Think cities, the bible, food recipes, most long form narratives from middle ages, etc.

                                        So, no, your equation is not true, neither is the reverse.

                                    • vzhang 11 years ago
                                      If their products are crap, who cares how often they release them? But take a look at what they are offering for $300:

                                      Specs: http://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_mi_3-5678.php

                                      Design: http://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_mi_3-pictures-5678.php

                                      • casperc 11 years ago
                                        I wonder why they put a barometer in there. Is that actually useful? I would love to have a thermometer in my phone, but I can't think of a use for a barometer that isn't bettered by an online weather service.
                                        • mtber 11 years ago
                                          Not sure how they are using it but from what i understand it can be used with gps to help locate you faster.
                                      • nichtich 11 years ago
                                        It's mostly a marketing hype. Xiaomi is known for it's style for "releasing" a phone that's really cheap for the specs, but limiting the supply until when the price for the hardware drops. Hardcore fans who closely follow the company may get the phone early and brags to their friends about how good the phone is compared to the price thus driving up the hype, but when average consumer can actually get the device it'll not be so impressive anymore. Now with this reputation more widely known then before, they may be trying to lessen the doubt by promising "weekly" update of the hardware. Thus when they finally have a big enough margin to supply at scale, people won't think the phone is "old".
                                        • cantankerous 11 years ago
                                          I find it really impressive that a company can roll out incremental changes to 100,000 devices in a week. I wonder if the author somehow got it mixed up and the updates to each weekly device aren't necessarily a week old. It's just rolling updates hitting every batch every week. That would make a little more sense. I think some other people have said in the comments that some changes just wouldn't fit into a week's time span. I suppose it would also make sense if all the changes were somehow tiny in nature.
                                          • 37prime 11 years ago
                                            Company like Apple COULD make different phones every week but there is no reasons why they wold want to do it. It is highly impractical for many reasons.

                                            Imagine IF Apple just made one iPhone in different color each week. Then imagine if Apple tweaked the internals each and every week. They’d be supporting at least 52 different versions of iPhone every year.

                                            The weekly “design, build, redesign and build” process should not replace a thoughtful R&D process.

                                            • kkowalczyk 11 years ago
                                              So if we apply your logic to software, a "thoughtful R&D process" of yearly releases (also known as "waterfall software development") is better than agile process of shipping frequently and tweaking your future features based on customer feedback.

                                              Etsy (http://codeascraft.com/2011/02/04/how-does-etsy-manage-devel...) and just about any web dev shop disagrees with you.

                                              There's nothing different about hardware.

                                              In fact there's a story about a guy who build human-powered airplane not by planning harder but by increasing the frequency of iterations (http://www.fastcodesign.com/1663488/wanna-solve-impossible-p...).

                                              This is exactly the idea behind Xiaomi's hardware and software efforts: improve faster by learning faster from more frequent iterations. Apple can only learn if their stuff works every year. Xiaomi can learn something every week.

                                              • glassheart 11 years ago
                                                If a website makes an update, all users will get the new version as soon as caches expire. Something like an iOS update can also reach a large majority of users within weeks. Hardware that you've already shipped will remain in customer hands, obviously unchanged, yet still need to be supported through the warranty period and beyond. I don't understand why you would say that's nothing different. Your QA department would need to test software against many more versions of hardware, your software engineers would have to fix those bugs, and your after-sales support staff would have a harder time as well.

                                                Also, it's not as if other companies ship exactly the same hardware throughout the lifecycle of a product. New suppliers are added, parts that have been identified as a return driver are reworked, and even major mid-life changes (consider the slim versions of each PlayStation as an example) happen as a matter of course.

                                                • 37prime 11 years ago
                                                  Aren't we talking about hardware? It is a lot easier to patch software.

                                                  Hardware? Not the case. It is not practical to keep changing hardware when the production is larger than what Xiaomi is currently delivering.

                                              • caycep 11 years ago
                                                This seems to me to reflect the difference between two cultures. China's tech ecosystem is still fairly young - I daresay it's like the old days of Apple in a garage, the old HP, etc. I think this post on Bunnie Huang's blog explains it (or at least explores it) a lot better than I can:

                                                http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=20

                                                • brianbreslin 11 years ago
                                                  How are these changes implemented? Are they things that require moving buttons? Recasting dies? Or are they things like "this model april4-11-2013 has a malfunction charging on USB?" And it's fixing circuitry? This seems unrealistic, even if it was just releasing a new color.
                                                  • enscr 11 years ago
                                                    Reading the article makes me feel that Xiaomi was a fun experiment started by the billionaire founder that turned out to be a successful venture.

                                                    It sounds very interesting to innovate hardware at that pace... and why not. Taking input from the users with such a fast turnaround is awesome too.

                                                    • devx 11 years ago
                                                      If only Google did the same with all Android devices, or at least a big "Google-approved" subset of them. They need to bring over the ChromeOS update system to Android, especially now that Chrome and Android have the same guy running them.
                                                    • adamb_ 11 years ago
                                                      What are they changing? Are we talking "this week's model has softer bezels" or "this week's model has a new FM radio"?(which they do btw.)
                                                      • moca 11 years ago
                                                        It is a common misunderstanding. Xiaomi updates its beta channel once a week, and stable channel once a month. It is still an amazing pace though.
                                                        • snowwrestler 11 years ago
                                                          The whole point of the iPhone is that it is a pocket-sized general purpose computer, so that updates can happen via software instead of hardware.

                                                          That was like the 5th slide in the original launch presentation.

                                                          If you have change hardware to offer users an incremental feature, you're not really competing with the iPhone.