"After 5 years/70k miles, the battery will probably still be at 95% capacity"

No way. I'd say you have 75% tops (probably less with 70k miles). And unless you pre-buy a new battery you're going to be looking at a $20-30k replacement cost. Also note that it will likely be out of warranty at that point. And that Tesla values them at roughly $1 per mile (the price they give you for purchasing a loaner).

They've not made a SUV because they tend to be inefficient due to their size and weight.

Starting at the top end of the market and providing limited options is the Apple approach, likely to lead to profit but not necessarily market share.

> Instead they are putting out a bullshit Gucci gull-wing contraption that is a total let-down.

What's a let-down about it? Legitimately curious.

You're absolutely spot on. Sadly you are getting downvoted for it.

Whenever I'm sitting around waiting for oil change/tuneup/etc for my 2 cars in the family, I am tempted to look into Tesla. Having to sacrifice a Sat/car every few months for oil change really bugs me. Of course oil change itself is quick and cheap, but it’s the time I have to spend.

EDIT: I should've clarified that I don't spend a WHOLE Sat for a car oil change. But for a 30min work on the car, you have to go there, wait to drop off car, listen to dealership clerk going on and on about expensive 'preventive' repair I should get (any my family friend mechanic tells me none needed), wait a few hours (because of other customers at same dealership), and get a ride back dealership to pick up the car. That's like 2-5hrs.

As for going to non-dealer mechanic, well it is hard to find a good mechanic you can really trust. And such mechanics are usually booked.

On my very 1st car last oil change, I got an oil change at a shop I hadn't gone to before, for lack of time. Later I learned the mechanic had jammed the cap to the bottom of the motor oil tank at an odd angle and had just jammed it on, destroying the thread on the tank. One more oil change and it would've meant having to replace the motor oil tank.

Which is:

"Tesla’s Resale Value Guarantee allows owners to sell their Model S back to Tesla between the end of months 36 and 39, regardless of the loan’s term. The resale amount is specified at the time of delivery and is forecasted to be higher than any high volume premium sedan brand (Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar or Lexus). This value is equal to 50% of the original base purchase price of the 60 kWh Model S plus 43% of the original purchase price for all of the options, including the upgrade to the 85 kWh battery pack (exclusive of taxes, fees, and accessories)."

More here http://www.teslamotors.com/financing/faq

Dealership on the 105k maintenance. Tires/brakes have been a one of the tire chain stores. But yeah, four new Michelins, rotors, pads, brake fluid flush, alignment, taxes, it's $800-$1k.

Not for that generation of Odyssey. My parents have one and the transmission just had to have major work at around ~130k.

Yes, but not uncommon for that generation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Odyssey_(North_America)#T...

I probably won't purchase a Honda again.

And then you can look at something like the BMW 328d that is "only" $42k and gets 43mpg, or a VW Golf TDI (Disclaimer: I own one) for around $27k and 40-45mpg in the real world.

FWIW, my lifetime actual fuel costs have $0.110/mi over almost 40,000 miles, and that's based on basiclly worst possible variables... auto transmission instead of a stick, hot climate (lots of A/C usage, which is about a 2-5mpg ding), and lots of city driving.

In the early days of the automobile, both electric and non-electric propulsion systems were actively researched and developed - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle

So Tesla stands as the most recent and the coolest of a long line of electric cars. Just as they have refined the concept of an electric automobile, the latest diesel technology that Audi is incorporating is a refined clean-buring diesel technology without the baggage of the old smokers.

So I'm not sure which retrograde technological movement you have in mind.

Right, but the Odyssey would be cheaper to insure in your area than a Tesla (theoretically).

Insurance costs are very localized, but for any 2 vehicles the coverage cost spread between them is probably comparable in any given region. EG: an Odyssey will always be cheaper to insure than a Model S in any specific region, BUT insuring an Odyssey in Toronto might be more expensive than insuring a Model S in Tulsa.

High for just the Odyssey or higher for all cars in and around Toronto? Collision insurance is usually based on the cost of parts and service. I would be surprised if the Tesla came in cheaper.

Keep in mind that the Roadster is an extremely limited-production, high-end niche car that is no longer manufactured.

Its value/depreciation curve will look very different from a still-manufactured luxury sedan of a previous generation, which is what the Model S will be in 3-5 years when Tesla release a new style.

    It was recently revealed that instead of CanBus they use Ethernet

If you're referring to the thread on teslamotorsclub.com[1], they are not using Ethernet for any sort of communication aside from infotainment and there is definitely a CAN bus[2].

There's been speculation that UDP broadcasts from the CAN bus are carried over that network as well, but it's almost certainly used for displaying information and informing various non-essential systems.

[1]: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28185-Successf...

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7535589

Modern japanese made internal-combustion engines are pretty much zero maintenance at this point; in my case, over 8 years and a combined 200K miles on a Nissan and a Toyota, the engines have gotten oil and timing belt changes and that's it. Zero mechanical engine problems at all. The Subaru and Acura I had for 5 years before that were the same. However, I've had to deal with brakes, suspension, tires, climate control, airbag, electronics, etc problems much more frequently, and those issues would happen just as often on a Tesla. Possibly more often because all of those systems are much more complex on a Tesla than the systems I have. Can I get the tesla air suspension serviced at my local mechanic? How about the computerized heater controls?

Do you mean Alameda county, or actually on Alameda, the island? If the former, I live in Alameda county, so that wouldn't explain it. If Alameda the island, why would costs be lower there? (honest question)

You're not looking at accurate data. Try again.

And if it's anecdotal quality you're speaking of, try again there too.

I drive a German car, I'm not an American car apologist, but there's no question that the "big 3" have stepped-up their game.

Not to mention, all the Japanese, Korean and even some European cars you mention are actually built in the US.

As others have replied, that is perhaps an antiquated perception.

I think the theory also comes from the fact that the Big 3 seem to have many more recalls than foreign companies. However in recent years, Toyota has actually recalled more cars than any other company [1]. Recalls are most often initiated by the company and not the government and therefore stats can change depending on the willingness of the company to start a recall (as seen by GMs recent problems). Anecdotally, the Asian car manufacturers rarely ever publicly announced recalls and would simply perform the recall when you took your car in for service. Therefore customers never knew there were issues and they were branded as "reliable" cars when perhaps they shouldn't have been.

1. http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/04/autos/la-fi-hy-toyot...

I think this is a dated perception. JD Power shows a fair showing of American cars in its 2013 initial quality study:

http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/quality/cars.htm

Citation needed.

Ford seems to have really cleaned up their act the last 3-5 years. I'm still a bit wary of Dodge/Chevy/GM, but have been super impressed with Ford. Granted, Ford did stink it up something ferocious in the early-mid 2000's.

Completely anecdotal, but we bought a 2012 focus last year and have been incredibly happy with it. Far more than with the Honda Civic it replaced. We run the wheels off our cars, and it's been a real trooper. Good gas mileage, easy to work on, cheap to repair/maintain.